Sudirman Cup Draw...

Discussion in 'Sudirman Cup 2005' started by kwun, Mar 21, 2005.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the draw was made on 3/21. the top flight consist of 8 countries divided into two groups:

    Group 1A

    Korea (1*)
    Denmark
    England
    Thailand

    Group 1B

    China (2*)
    Indonesia
    Hong Kong
    Sweden
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    not to forget Group 2, where there will also be interesting matches:

    Group 2A
    Malaysia
    Netherlands
    Chinese Taipei
    Russia

    Groups 2B
    Singapore
    Japan
    Germany
    Ukraine
     
  3. peace

    peace Regular Member

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    :eek: How can that Korea get the first seeding ??????
    It should be CHINA which get that seeding position, because they are the strongest team among others...surprise seeding !!!
    or maybe is it already a custom in Sudirman Cup that the champions before will get the first seeding position no matter how strong they are in the coming Sudirman Cup?:confused:
     
  4. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i believe what you said is the case.

    that aside, we can see that group 1A is the tougher group of the two.
     
  5. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    personally i don't really like the format/formula for selecting which country should join which group. Why??Because players that competed in last SC might have retired and no longer there. And now the squad is either 50% new or 100% brand new, with a bunch of very young players.
    IMO, from the below list, the only countries that deserve to be in this year's SC are:
    Korea, Denmark, Thailand, China and Indonesia. The rest are questionables: England (if not for their XD pairs), so is Sweden(no MS or WS in top 20) and Hong Kong(only for their MS and WS and MD) shouldn't be in it either

    On the other hand, IMO, the other country(ies) that deserve to be in it are Malaysia and esp. up and coming Japan.
    What they could do is select which countries have the most players ranked in the top 20 or 30 in the world in each categories(MS, WS, MD, WD, XD) and let those countries compete. I can't really rely on the current IBF rankings, it's kind of out of date..
    Or perhaps they could add one more group to the mix, so there will be 12 countries which will compete-so it will be Group 1C which will consist of Malaysia, Japan, Germany and Singapore.

    just my 2 cents..

     
    #5 ctjcad, Mar 21, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2005
  6. Qidong

    Qidong Regular Member

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    This may not be the best way. But I think it's fairer than have a selection comittee to select the best 8 teams. There are always arguments especially the last 2 or 3 teams. The selection can be based on some formulae. But look at what a mess the NCAA football BCS ends up with. I think it's fair that a team has to win division 2 in order to go up to division 1.
     
  7. Hugo

    Hugo Regular Member

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    Group 1A is definitely tougher relatively compared to 2A. I think China will five-0 both HK and Sweden without concern and against Indonesians, they will take both all-women's event and need one more from MS or MD. If China can't regain her form in XD by then, ie. Zhang/Gao then the Indonesians have a very good chance to take XD point via Widianto/Natsir, who've performed quite well recently.

    In 2A, tho Korea and Denmark are still the favorites, England should be able to take 1 point in XD against them.
     
  8. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    I partially agree with you. I think this formula is fair (no one complains about Davis Cup or English league football - if you cannot win your group, you should have no complaints) only if they hold the tournament every year. It gives a deserving country the chance to be promoted. For instance, take Malaysia. In the last SC (two years ago), they didn't make it because they lost in the final to Hong Kong. This year, maybe they find Japan too hard to handle. And when say, Sweden gets relegated, finally Malaysia gets to win the division two years later. And only in four years' time from now, hypothetically speaking, can Malaysia play in the top division. That's too slow.

    Another alternative would be a playoff between top teams from a lower division with the bottom teams of the higher division. eg. top team playoff with bottom team and second team playoff with second-from-bottom team. I think that would be the fairest, although it would add an extra day to the tournament. But in terms of excitement, it would be great.
     
  9. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    Malaysia got a good draw in the group. This is an advantage to them. China's hurdles will be Indonesia. Korea.. will face trouble with Denmark.
     
  10. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    In Group 1A, It will be a tough fight between Korea and Denmark. Thailand may give some difficulty, but will probably take third spot.

    In Group 1B, the Chinese ladies alone can almost guarantee 2 points. They just need Lin Dan, Fu/Cai, Zhang/Gao to take one point.

    In Group 2A, the Malaysian men could easily take 2 points from their opponents, with the exception of Dicky Palyama who is capable of an upset. The MD is a bit shaky but this is against second-rate opposition. On the ladies' side, it's gonna be difficult. Wong Mew Choo can beat Cheng Shao-Chieh but I don't think she can take Mia. Chin/Wong is about equal to the Taiwanese pair, but should have the edge against the Dutch pair (even if Mia is playing). And if Chin/Wong can't do the job, Koo/Wong should finish the job. Malaysia should be favourites, but cannot let their guard down. Taiwan (strong ladies) and Netherlands (with Indonesian connections) are capable of upsetting.

    In Group 2B, at first glance, Japan seems strong, but in closer detail, Singapore looks favourite to top the group, if only just. Ronald will be favourite but must be careful against Sato. Japan looks favourite for the MD. WS will go to Japan without much doubt. XD seems to favour Singapore. So, the key will be the WD. Japan does not seem to have a stand-out pair, but they can surprise.
     
  11. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    what happens after the group stage?
     
  12. seven

    seven New Member

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    In top group (1), Winner of each sub-group takes up runner-up of the other sub-group in Semi-Finals.
    Third of group 1A plays against third of group 1B for 5th position
    Fourth of group 1A plays aginst fourth of group 1B fot 7th position

    In all other groups, ranking matches with first against first, second against second, third against thid, fourth against fourth.
     
  13. seven

    seven New Member

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  14. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    so it will probably be

    Korea v China
    Denmark v Indonesia
    or
    Korea v Indonesia
    Denmark v China

    with option 1 I would guess a
    China v Indonesia final
    winner: China 60/40

    with option 2 I would guess a
    China v Korea final
    winner: China 70/30

    Sorry Denmark, nothing personal. It's only a guess.
     
  15. hcpoirot

    hcpoirot Regular Member

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    What excting matches in group 1A! Although Korea and Denmark are the fav semifinalist but Thailand and England also had chances against Korea and Denmark.



    Lets see, England.



    They had strong XD.They can get one point from Denmark and Korea XD.



    But they got weak MS. So they also lost a point from Denmark and Korea MS.



    WS : Tracey Hallam had a 45:55 chance against Jun Jae Yon and better chances 52:48 with Tine.



    WD: Denmark pairs didn’t play so well after Rikke split with Ann Lou. The English pair had 50 : 50 chances to beat them. But they lost a point to Korea WD.



    MD: Although not too strong but Nathan/ Robert will not lost easily to Korea or Denmark MD. Not to forget Nathan can always pair with his old partner Anthony. They quite a good MD. Wonder why they split up.





    Now Thailand.



    MS: Boonsak had better head to head against Lee Hyun Il.2-0 in Thomas Cup and Olympic last year. Bonsak never played Gade. And usually heplay well at group event.



    WS: Salakjit lost twice to Jun in three hard fought sets each time. Never played Tine but I bet she had 51 : 49 to beat Tine.



    MD : Lost one point both to Korea and Denmark doubles.



    WD: The Thai pairs had 1-0 lead against Rikke/Mette. They will won against the Danes. Probably lost to Korea ladies.



    XD : The Thai lead 2-0 against the Danes. What it was 2003 record. So probably the chances 50 : 50. And gave one points to Korea.



    Yes, Korea and Denmark still the fav in group 1A. But they had to work hard to beat England or Thailand. And if they are over confidence or play bad, both countries can lost to England or Thailand.



    Not to mention Korea and Denmark had to play each other. What a tough group!



    In 1B. its pretty easy to predict that China and Indonesia will be the semifinalist. Although Indonesia had to be careful with Hong Kong. Specialy if Wang Chen also play WD.
     
  16. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    1a Is certainly tough, when you think about who can play who. Actually ENG + Thai are not too far behind in them.

    Key battles everywhere:

    WS for all teams concerned, Ponsana/Jun Jae youn or see/Hallam or Cann/Rasmussen are fairly evenly matched overall. I would put KOR ahead here though, as they tend to perform well in team (Eng tend not too)

    MS for Lee or Shon/Boonsak/Gade or Jonassen are tricky ones to predict, and boonsak performs particularly well for his country, as do korea.

    MD the ENG have some capable pairs, KOR have some learning pairs, DEN are strong, but maybe inconsistent on the day. Thailand look weak here.

    XD All countries have strong pairs, with nothing between them on good days. Crucial as always.

    WD: Thai/Kor look strong here, but not much between those too. Den seem lost in this discipline, and Eng lack strength.

    In this group I place Kor strong favourites for their attitude to team events always seems strong, but it will not be easy. For them to beat INA in possible semi should not be too difficult, but to beat CHN, they need KDM back to get XD + MD


    In the other group, I cant see any problems for INA and china to go through. INA can get XD, MS, MD from sweden/HK, but to be overreiant on Men is too mcuh to win a team event. They need Mia!
     

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