wjsutanto
Regular Member
That's truly a pity, Michelle Li truly deserves to be in WTF Final given her amazing performance this year.
Race to Guangzhou
- Thread starter minions
- Start date
Agree. She has finally reached the top 8 in World Ranking. Now that she is pretty much won't be able to qualify to WTF, her points will be lost. It may be difficult for her to stay within the top 8 in the future since CM will rise to the top for sure and ASY has shot up in ranking pretty quickly.
ong huigen
Regular Member
Well if I were Michelle li. I would also be wondering why all the best players were playing for hk and Korea. Would have started smelling a rat then.
ong huigen
Regular Member
The other thing is, since last year the 2nd last tournament syed modi was the one counted, why would this year be different? Making the assumption is foolishness. I am actually surprised they did not sell a rat. Even I was suspicious about the whole thing nvm a professional player like her.
But then I blame the organizers and bwf as well. How come they never inform Michelle that the competitions counted.
But then I blame the organizers and bwf as well. How come they never inform Michelle that the competitions counted.
for entry, no. for withdrawing, yes. it's a small fee but that's not the point in this case.
the smaller federations like canada & usa don't keep track of anything. the player tells them what to enter and when to enter it. these federations do not financially support or have any vested interest in the player. looking out for the player is not part of their reason for existing. sad.
on the player's side they are on their own in planning their lives around the tournament schedule in order to maximize their chances of qualifying for something like the wtf/wc/og, while staying healthy and not over playing. when they plan on entering a tourney don't forget, they are also pre-paying their air travel and planning their annual budget. for unsponsored players this can make or break your entire career.
for wtf it was not nec'y for michelle li to enter anything after fuzhou china open, or so she thought. by the time bwf erroneously and arbitrarily changed the qualifying dates on nov 14th it was too late for her to enter the korea masters. the deadline for korea was oct 15th. bwf's excuse of notifying all federations is pathetic & moot because they changed the wtf deadline on nov 14th (as noted by the file they uploaded dated nov 14th: https://extranet.bwfbadminton.com/docs/events/3754/docs/Updated _ HSBC BWF World Tour Finals _ Players Prospectus 2019 _ 14 November 2019.pdf), 30 days after any player could have a fair opportunity to qualify by entering korea before oct 15th.
legally she has a case. however, it would cost a lot of money to sue bwf. they are a malaysian based organization and she is a canadian resident. i hope she contacts badminton canada & the bwf players association to argue on her behalf, however, i will not be holding my breath on those avenues either.
the evidence is clearly in her favor, even as published in bwf's own world tour regulations.
to summarize:
- michelle li qualified to the wtf according to bwf's originally published criteria and timeline
- bwf arbitrarily changed the criteria and timeline to a date which did not allow player/players any opportunity to abide by the new criteria
has this affected any other players? i have not checked.
ong huigen
Regular Member
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terrynguyen121988
Regular Member
Michelle Li was on top 5 in Olympic Tokyo 2020 race, and If she cannot take part in HSBC WTF, she would have "lost" many important points.
Opportunity for Li to become a seed or not in 2020, who know ???? If she play well and become top 2 in Olympic Tokyo 2020 race, who know ????
Opportunity for Li to become a seed or not in 2020, who know ???? If she play well and become top 2 in Olympic Tokyo 2020 race, who know ????
terrynguyen121988
Regular Member
Well, because they have to compete for Olympic Tokyo 2020 race, my friend.
Look at Misaki/Sayaka, Fukushima/Hirota and Nagahara/Matsumoto and the same with Fajar/Rian, Minions, Ahsan/Setiwan, they have to compete all tournaments, not because they were afraid of qualifying round.
Of course, Michelle Li would not have qualified in 2018 had only the Super 500+ counted. She would have been a lowly 11th, and was #16 on the world rankings.
How can one take that incorrect web page as anything but an error? November 12th would have been too early to count even the Hong Kong Open. That is not to say that the BWF shouldn't be working harder to avoid publishing incorrect information. Nor am I saying that they shouldn't fix a qualification system that counts points from all Super 100 events (which are not even World Tour events) but not all Super 300 events.
olympic qualification isn't the problem because she will qualify for being the top canadian player, but olympic seeding could be the issue. wtf will get a minimum of 6,600 points for being invited according to the bwf points chart. those defended 6,600 points for her could prove valuable towards maintaining a top 8 rank and being seeded in the early 2020 tournaments.
terrynguyen121988
Regular Member
I think there is a case in which, a officer from BWF who was responsibility to enter data (deadline) on the their website made a mistake, he/she entered the wrong data (date/day), and much later he/she finded out the mistake, then corrected it but DID NOT tell this incidence to higher officers. (managers)
And about the Michelle Li side, her coach take photo from the BWF's website and plan a schedule for the whole year without checking it regularly. Then, they make mistake too although It's not their fault.
And about the Michelle Li side, her coach take photo from the BWF's website and plan a schedule for the whole year without checking it regularly. Then, they make mistake too although It's not their fault.
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the dates originally published followed the standard lead times and deadlines for all bwf tournaments. there was no reason for any federation to think the original published dates would not be correct.
yes, but it would not have been out of the ordinary.
agreed. this is how bwf 'sells' it in 3 sentences: (https://corporate.bwfbadminton.com/events/bwf-world-tour/)
Players on the Tour compete in the 26 tournaments throughout the year gaining ranking points towards qualification in a race to the year ending finale, the HSBC BWF World Tour Finals – the best of the best.
The 26 tournaments are divided into five levels – Super 1000 (three tournaments), Super 750 (five tournaments), Super 500 (seven tournaments) and Super 300 (eleven tournaments). Each of these tournaments offers different ranking points and prize money. The highest points and prize pool is offered at the Super 1000 level.
One other category of tournament, the BWF Tour Super 100 level, also offers HSBC BWF World Tour ranking points. Although this level is not part of the HSBC BWF World Tour, it is an important part of the pathway and entry point for players into the HSBC BWF World Tour tournaments.
first sentence explicitly states only 26 will count towards wtf. second sentence reaffirms the 26 are represented by the 300 and higher levels. 3rd sentence introduces the 100's, classifies them as non-wt, yet, when you go to the race to wtf rankings page they are counting the 100's towards wtf qualification, contrary to sentence #1 & #2 above: https://bwfbadminton.com/rankings/9...es/2019/46?rows=25&page_no=1&player1_id=53944
quick check: indian ms players have points from hyderabad open, a super 100. michelle li has points from canada open, also a super 100. "
my latest submission to the cambridge english dictionary...
BWF (Badminton World Federation)
noun, adjective, verb, adverb
- being a perpetual cycle of ineptitude
- having a lack of capable leadership
- displaying a colossal disregard for attention to detail
- conducting an egregiously unprofessional operation
- constructing a hierarchical labyrinth
- creating a void of responsibility
- proving a condition of incompetence
Baddyforall
Regular Member
as i stated above, the change was too late for ANY player to adjust their schedule...
ong huigen
Regular Member
Actually you do make a point. As I indicated earlier. Would it have made sense in the first place for the closing date to be so early. Of course we do not expect BWF to make a mistake like that but then to have the closing date to be so early, it really does make sense to ask about it. Like I said earlier. I was a little shocked that Syed Modi was not included as part of the points calculation until I clarified over here. She could have done the same thing as well. It really does not make sense for BWF to suddenly close the date at such an early date.
I disagree. First off, the Finals are always different. In the last Superseries year, there was only 16 days between the end of the Hong Kong Open and the first day in Dubai. Second, chopping off the last 3 tournaments instead of the last one - as in 2018 - would be seriously 'out of the ordinary'. Just last year, Michelle Li only finished ahead of He Bingjiao because she got enough points from the Hong Kong Open. The fact that some MAs were surprised last year that Korea didn't count made the news in Indonesia. If she or her coach read a ranking point deadline that excluded the last two Super 300s and the last Super 500, their obvious first move should have been to contact the BWF and scream WTF!!! That would make more sense than asking no questions and simply not entering the player in a tournament in the same week that the last point-yielding tournaments occurred last year.
Again, this is not to say that the BWF shouldn't be chastised for publishing wrong information on that one date and for posting intentionally misleading information every year about their world tour, and for having a system that intuitively makes no sense.
ong huigen
Regular Member
That's what I have been implying. But then definition of ordinary seems to be different for people over here.
correct.
it is stated in bwf's regulations when they can hold the tournament, clarifying the date & lead times can be shorter than normal. however, they still publish those dates to all federations with plenty of time for players to plan and ask ?'s. a couple of tournaments occurring near the end of the year might get left out, but again, everyone is notified about it with plenty of time to plan.
the problem is not which tournaments count or don't count. the issue this year is the sudden change in qualifying dates without sufficient and proper warning to the federations, and to a date making it impossible for players who have qualified under the original dates to now qualify according to the new dates.
in 2017 & 2018 the lead time was short, but the criteria was published and, most importantly, never changed.
https://corporate.bwfbadminton.com/events/calendar/2017/all/0/-1/
https://corporate.bwfbadminton.com/events/calendar/2018/all/22/grade-2-level-1/
player: yay, i qualified for wtf! $$$!
bwf: uhhh, i'm afriad not.
player: wtf you talkin' about?
bwf: on nov 14th we've extended the qualifying dates to nov 26.
player: wtf!? you're telling me this today, nov 14th? now it's impossible to enter the korea masters in order to meet your new criteria! why didn't you tell us before the oct 15th deadline of entering korea masters?
bwf: *blank stare*
player: hello? hello?
bwf: *slowly crawls under desk*
Really BWF did that? They changed the qualifying date for WTF to Nov. 26 on Nov. 14 where Oct 15 deadline to enter the last tournament that still qualifies? This is ridiculous.
ong huigen
Regular Member
Someone still does not get it. People here are not really the most intelligent despite having badminton knowledge. A pity
In the end Michelle li still have to suffer because of her assumptions. You can blame bwf all you want. But this could have been resolved easily by just asking bwf a simple question.
Being a little suspicious always help and this is what I have learnt even in life.
In the end Michelle li still have to suffer because of her assumptions. You can blame bwf all you want. But this could have been resolved easily by just asking bwf a simple question.
Being a little suspicious always help and this is what I have learnt even in life.