Praveen Jordan / Melati Daeva Oktavianti

Discussion in 'Indonesia Professional Players' started by ebcd, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. terrynguyen121988

    terrynguyen121988 Regular Member

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    smash all night ^-^
     
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  2. Quentin11

    Quentin11 Regular Member

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    Is that even possible?
     
  3. rhoder

    rhoder Regular Member

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    Frankly I think Jordan’s smash power is a tad overrated by the commentators. It’s a very strong smash, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t see players struggling with it significantly more than comparables like Zheng Siwei and Wang Yilyu. They still have to set up the rally before his smash can be a winner, otherwise players still can get it back.

    Additionally, what I believe adds to that perception is that he possesses the only smash that can threaten the Chinese XD defence. Other nations top XD pairs don’t quite have that power, so when we see the Chinese defence unusually threatened, it contributes to the perception that Jordan’s smash is supremely strong.

    What I believe that the commentators got right though, is his amazing forearm power. His backhand drives and certain flicks at the front court are really something quite special, that not even Siwei or Yilyu can produce as well


    (If we want to see a smash power above its generation, go back to watch FHF AE 2007 matches, the moment FHF got a lift, you could be almost certain the upcoming smash would be a winner, regardless of how well positioned the opponents were)
     
    #83 rhoder, Mar 20, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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  4. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Another way to look at it was when you watch it live. You could really see how the shuttle went off and hear the sound of the smash. I supposed the angle and placement plus his arm power add everything else needed to make it a lot deadlier than it looks.
    Sometimes I feel like I was looking at the shuttle when Praveen was about to smash and the next instant the shuttle was just there on the floor on the opposite end.
     
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  5. rhoder

    rhoder Regular Member

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    Yup I do get that impression as well watching on TV. It really seems powerful, and with the commentators commenting how powerful an athlete Jordan is all the time, it really can influence a viewer. I’m just interested in knowing whether he is really a class above the rest in terms of smash power, or are other players like Zheng Siwei actually comparable to him in this regard. I have heard commentators use the word ‘fast, quick’ on ZSW fairly generously, but they hesitate to say ‘powerful’ because they regard Praveen as the ‘powerful’ player, but personally I have doubts on whether the difference in power between the two is as significant.

    But I’m not very sure of my opinion on this matter either :confused:
     
    #85 rhoder, Mar 20, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  6. SomeoneElse

    SomeoneElse New Member

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    The only weight hitting the defender is the shuttlecock weight which is gonna be constant (probably?) no matter who hit it. You cannot have the same shuttlecock which is moving slower feel heavier than when it is moving faster.

    Well, maybe if a really fast hitter was breaking the shuttlecock more, it would lose more mass when it reach the defender which could result in less momentum. For example: a 350 kph hit broke off 0.3 gram of material of a 5.5g shuttle results in a momentum of 5.2 g * 350 kph = 1820 g*km/ h momentum vs a 400 kph hit that broke off 1 gram material results in a momentum of 4.5 g * 400 = 1800.

    Even then, with 0.7 g difference, the momentum of slower hit is only a little bit more. But that difference is unlikely, as I compared a mostly fine shuttle with a totally busted one (much more busted than any player would ever have used for before replacing it) and the difference was only 0.2 g. Those are also only the initial momentums. The more broken shuttle will slow down less by the time it reached defender, thereby having more momentum anyway.
     
    #86 SomeoneElse, Mar 21, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
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  7. regularAl

    regularAl New Member

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    He smashes smart. Always mixing up the pace, spin and placement. Although his movement does not look as good as top two chinese XD men, he seems to have better court awareness and the position of his opponents.
     
  8. stanleyfm

    stanleyfm Regular Member

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    My theory is that because his height (partially because he is taller)

    I never know EXACTLY how the measurement of smash speed being done, but as far as I know it is a measures at the moment the hit occurred. The speed then decreases as long as it travels the air.

    However, when you are shorter, the trajectory is longer and its possible that the shuttle speed decreases more at the time it reaches the opponent.

    Secondly, the trajectory is also steeper so the receiver has to do a more lower defense stroke against the smash. This create an awkward angle and in which the vector of velocity cannot be easily 'converted' back into a velocity for the defensive shot. We always mention about conservation of momentom when talking about heavy smash, but we keep forgetting that our assumption is always a 1-Dimensional conservation of momentum. When talking about a 2-Dimensional momentum (like in snooker when 1 ball hit another ball, assuming no friction and etc. of course) let alone 3-Dimensional like in badminton, the angle plays role in returning the shuttle and the steeper angle makes it feel like the smash is really hard, because the opponent misses/mishits the return.

    Actually, just by writing my 2nd point, I have just realized that badminton is the most advance 3-dimensional sport (as far as I know). Basketball and volleyball are kinda close but not at all as 3-dimensional as badminton.

    But this is just my theory hahaha
     
  9. Hbmao

    Hbmao Regular Member

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    This has some good points. How fast a smash is should really be measured by counting the time from hitting the shuttle to the opponent (or the floor) receiving the shuttle. The data available is only the initial velocity which obviously matters but is only one part of the equation. Unfortunately there is no additional data available.

    As a silly example, in principle one can hit a clear that measured 400 km/h leaving his racket but it won’t kill the opponent.

    Other sports like tennis is a bit different as the ball is not affected by aero forces as much.
     
  10. SomeoneElse

    SomeoneElse New Member

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    If the shorter player jumps high enough, he could just equal the height at which the shuttle is hit by the taller player. With Jordan at 186 cm tall, probably about 20 cm more reach than someone at 170 cm. So the shorter player only needs to jump 20 cm higher than Jordan does. Possibly Jordan always jumping higher than someone shorter, and the player can only jump as high as limited by how high the shuttle is in the air.

    For that, one could use the videos and time how long the shot takes to get from racket to defender. Each shot the distance between smasher and defender will be different though.
     
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  11. wade

    wade Regular Member

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    I feel like melati need more appreciation here :D



    Her playing style at the front court is similar to hendra/fajar, love it whenever she play that cross shot from her backhand side.
     
  12. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    Just been watching a few slo-mos of Jordan smashing and noticed that sometimes he completely opens his fingers on the grip in the early part of his swing. Wonder if this is just natural or whether it was a coaching point to remind him to keep a loose grip until impact :) (I've tried it in the past when I noticed I was beginning a swing with a white knuckle grip!)

    Check out 0:19 here, you might want to slow down the playback ;-)

     
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  13. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Yep, definitely he is very relaxed on court and especially in his windup. I've also noticed TTY do this sometimes. There's already a good example at 0:08.

    Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk
     
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  14. Dangho

    Dangho Regular Member

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    It's to generate more power from wrist/underarm rotation I think
     
  15. esppy

    esppy Regular Member

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    Relaxed grip, then tighten on impact. Snap explosion.
    Standard coaching except his is pronounced. It's nice seeing him tighten and that frame absolutely flexing due to Jordan's overpowering, hahaha.

    Another pro that does it very pronounced is India's London Bronze Medalist and resident grunter-on-stringbed-impact, Saina Nehwal. UNF!
     
  16. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    Yep, good ol' finger power!
    He's the first pro I've seen actually take his fingers off the grip as a regular part of the swing, now I can't unsee it!

    I'll have a look at Saina...
     
  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Yep, agree. Except Saina... she uses mostly shoulder and arm. Any player like her that can't stick smash has not properly learned finger power.

    TTY and Intanon can stick smash often. I usually pick female pro players to observe for finger power because they are the ones who need to use it since their musculature is not as powerful as males.

    Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk
     
  18. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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  19. visor

    visor Regular Member

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  20. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    #100 yuquall, Apr 20, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020

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