Personnal progression asking for advices

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by SimonCarter, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. SimonCarter

    SimonCarter Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2018
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    76
    Location:
    France
    Hello guys

    It has been a long long while since you helped me a lot. Here I come with a new video of me playing against my coach. He is a former national player (~150th french) He is a bit rusty and playing casual so do not be surprised by the amount of backhand he plays yet he still won 21-17.

    Here is the video (1080p60fps feel free to slow it down):


    Things I noticed from my own perception while playing and watching the video :
    - I am standing lower with less useless vertical movement than before
    - Overall shot quality feels better
    - I am using the cross court lob way too much when getting a drop shot on my backhand, I know why I do it
    - because I feel like i am too late to do a dropshot
    - I feel like it is the safest option (longest distance in order to not have the shuttle go long and it is to the backhand side of my opponent)​
    If any of those observation is wrong to you please elaborate on why, I would love to hear about it.

    Things I am wondering
    - I am standing low enough?
    - Am I still too 'stiff'?

    I hope you enjoy the video and do not hesitate to point anything to me, all I want is to get better at this game and there is still a lot to climb!

    PS this year was a blast, I felt like getting in better form and performing better physically and tactically while gaining 2 rankings (In france we have 12 rankings from 12th to 1st to make it simple, 1st is the 100 better players in France, I am now sitting at the 7th best rank which feels fantastic)
     
    #101 SimonCarter, Sep 1, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    22,285
    Likes Received:
    3,761
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Generally quite a good level.

    Some of your play is due to lack of experience like knowing what shots the opponent might play from a certain position.

    Your high serve looks like it could be inconsistent . Do you find that the case? If so, be careful of the follow through after hitting the shuttle. Quite a number of times, the racquet head hits through the shuttle and goes to the left side of your body too much.

    Sometimes when you go to the net from the middle of the court, your right foot first steps backward by a big distance - too big a distance. It makes you late to the shuttle at the net, you hit the shuttle at a lower point and you cannot do such a good netshot. That makes you feel you have to lift to the backcourt. The opponent starts to predict this. You will have to lift to the opponent’s forehand side as times to ‘mix up the game’ and make the opponent guess more where to move.


    Still got that habit of too many backhands when you can do a round the head shot.

    I think you can still be a bit more relaxed.

    Can still be a little bit more explosive.

    Good jump out to the forehand overhead- that’s very nice - use a lot of different shots from this position. It’s good!

    Where to work on? 1) Definitely defence routines to get lower at certain key times during a rally. 2) Check footwork to front of court. 3) work on hip and body rotation so that you can do the overhead round the head shot to do a clear/dropshot/stick smash.
     
    SimonCarter likes this.
  3. SimonCarter

    SimonCarter Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2018
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    76
    Location:
    France
    Thank you for the answer.


    Can you elaborate on that point? Is it possible to point a specific example in the video? Like what shot was kinda predictable and what should have I done to capitalize on it.

    I will definitely keep that in mind because you are right it does feel inconsistent at time.

    I see what you mean, I need to be more efficient in my way to the net. That will need a good amount of shadow practice to get better I guess.

    When i keep in mind to play overhead I manage to play way less backhand but it is not automatic yet.

    Thanks for the precise feedback I will try all that as soon as possible.
     
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    22,285
    Likes Received:
    3,761
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    It’s not that the shot was predictable but that you are playing a higher level opponent who has different shot choices to those you usually play against. This is part of experience and recognising patterns of play amongst different opponents.
     
  5. SimonCarter

    SimonCarter Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2018
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    76
    Location:
    France
    Ah I see, indeed I am not used to have such good shot played against me.

    Thanks again for your valuable time.
     
  6. SimonCarter

    SimonCarter Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2018
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    76
    Location:
    France
    Hi guys Quick update on my situation

    I have yet reached a new ranking by winning a tournament this weekend and felt like sharing my joy! Thanks to all of you for the advices and discussions, I would not have improved that much without you.

    Ok my to do list there are definitely still some points :
    - foot work to the front court : as I face stronger and stronger opponent this become a high priority because I step forward when under pressure to compensate my poor movement to the front court and this opens a big vulnerability to offensive clear which starts to be common now.
    - getting even lower : I feel like I have made progress on this one but still some work to do
    - taking more overhead : I feel like I am taking to many backhand when lazy, when I am forcing myself to up the pace I am taking way less backhand. But I need to make it automatic.

    Since the points I am working on are the same than the ones given by Cheung last time I won't make a video yet. Except maybe some shadow to the front court on Sunday. I wish I recorder my final that I won 30-28 24-22 in 50 minutes tho! That would have exposed all the weakness in my game since I was playing at 110% while fatigued. That was a close one!
     
  7. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    22,285
    Likes Received:
    3,761
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Good point. If you improve your explosive movement and footwork to the front court, your base can be a bit further back. This will start to make the offensive clear less effective against you.
     
    Mason, speCulatius and SimonCarter like this.
  8. SimonCarter

    SimonCarter Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2018
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    76
    Location:
    France
    Hello everyone it has been a while!

    It almost feel like a new start after such a long break from competition and training, it had a bad impact on performance and I feel like coming to you guys to go back to the basics. That is why I recorded a short shadow session, I was just trying to move around without overthinking my footwork More may come in the evening, maybe I'll record a single match too.

    Points noted are :

    • I am still not low enough (maybe it is ok?)
    • Footwork to the front is still not so good (especially to the bachkand)
    • I feel like my split step is not good
      • Either it is a bit to 'jumpy'
      • Either it is almost absent



    My next goals are to do explosiveness exercises (jumping lunges and squats for example, if you have more exercises I'll take them into my routine). My weekly training schedule is probably going to be the following
    • 1 practice / week (1h45)
    • 2 free play practice or tournament (mixed or singles) during the week end
    • 2 outdoor sessions
      • 10-20 minutes of warm up : running at slow pace
      • 10 to 20 times : 30 seconds explosiveness exercises (jumping lunges, jumping squats, shadows, other?) / 30 seconds rest
      • 10-20 minutes cool down : running at slow pace
    • During rest days (optional) : slow running for 30 minutes max to relax legs OR core execrices at home

    I have been running a lot lately (preparing for a mountain run that was last week) and I noticed that I lost a lot in explosiveness which
    discouraged me a little this is why I want to replace my two running sessions with those outdoors sessions.
     
  9. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,292
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    Location:
    Germany
    One very important point - when you scissor jump into your deep backhand, bring down your right foot much earlier to help accelerate forward. Also try to land with your body leaning forward more, so that you instantly start moving forwards again, and aren't fixed in that BH corner for too long.

    Also, your scissor jump is all over the place - sometimes it's barely recognizable because there's so much time between either foot making contact...I'd say you can get very, very significantly faster just by working on the footwork pattern and timing, don't worry too much about the athletic component. If you're going to start with the very basics, place your feet parallel to the net in your neutral position! You're always placing them so that you have a good start into the next corner, that's not what's going to happen in real rallies. Adjusting your base and foot position is more advanced and should come in much later.

    But for what it's worth, having had the same experience (running slowing me down significantly), I'd recommend exercises such as squats, lunges and deadlifts to train moving in that crouched position with bent hip and knees, because running trains you to do the exact opposite and you lose strength in those positions when you focus on it without incorporating a lot of strength work.
    Oh, and do test (and, depending on the outcome, work on) your hip and ankle mobility. For badminton, it's good to be able to squat deep with little to no heel drop, and limited mobility often causes problems down the line.

    2 quick videos that might help:



    Keep in mind not to overdo it with the directional split step they mention. You're doing it too much already, I'd recommend starting with a neutral foot position and then advancing to the directional split step. Best way to practice the correct timing and tehcnique is to do it with someone else or a device that tells you where to go, so you can't cheat by knowing beforehand where to go (as you do now).

    Hope that helps!
     
    SimonCarter likes this.
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    22,285
    Likes Received:
    3,761
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Agree with @j4ckie

    additionally :

    Still not low enough. Basically keep low unless you need to reach for the shuttle and after hitting it, get back low again.

    Split step is very inefficient. Your feet are not landing on the ground at the same time which we can see and also hear. You really need to have both feet landing at the same time to change direction really quickly.
     
    j4ckie and SimonCarter like this.
  11. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    'round here....
    A lot has been said already and while it might sound like I disagree with most of it, I'll actually tell you directly if I disagree, because I do agree with most of it, if not all... also, I'm writing to Simon, not to the person I quote.
    Scissor jump in the backhand doesn't work, so I'll assume it's the backhand corner and an around the head (forehand) stroke.
    The goal should be too get quick contact to the ground with your right foot, I just have an issue with how it's being said.

    Leaning into the stroke will cause your left foot to get back to the ground first.

    If you're not far enough behind the shuttle, your right foot will go upwards or even backwards. That's what's happening without a shuttle in your exercise.

    So I'd say more something along the lines that you should try to have your body going forward for the stroke while leaning into it.
    At your stage, the goal might even be to land with both feet at the same time, when doing footwork exercises. That's an unpopular opinion, but it should help you to prevent your body from falling backwards. The next step would be to lean more into the stroke again with your upper body which will lead to the left foot coming down first (again).

    Perpendicular?

    Yes, build up some real strength again. Acceleration increases linear with the force you can apply. In addition to that, I recommend shadow footwork exercises that aim on speed and staying low (related!) going a little beyond what you think your limit is every time! I'll link some videos that I'm actually not totally sure anymore what I did, but I remember that the recording session was mostly about speed (at >40° and >90% humidity).



    They are suggestions to spark your creativity, not a know-it-all answer. Short intervals, but many repetitions...
    No need to test. Work on it. Always. It will help with stability as well.
    This is where I do not agree 100%. If you hit a high clear, you don't need to stay low. However, as a good start, before working on rhythm (tense-relaxed-tense/ low-less low-low) for efficiency, it's best to always be low.

    Another point where it's not really clear, so I cannot just agree. For a directional split step, one foot should land first to push you in the opposite direction. For a neutral split step, both feet should land simultaneously. Take into account what Jackie wrote.
     
    SimonCarter and visor like this.
  12. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    22,285
    Likes Received:
    3,761
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Theoretically yes, practically in gameplay, it’s a disadvantage to be caught standing up when you get a play with sudden changes of shuttle direction, pace and an opponent willing to jump up to the shuttle.

    Unless you are really experienced at game play, trying to keep low centre of gravity after a high clear is still a good habit to train for intermediate players.

    If you feel his feet landing are ok and are not inefficient, just say so .
     
    SimonCarter likes this.
  13. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    'round here....
    Yes... maybe I should not have mentioned it at this point.
    They're not efficient. I am not sure though if that's because they don't land simultaneous or if that will be solved when staying lower. There's a lot of up and down movement, that might just be caused by the bad angle when not staying low enough -> pushing off more upwards rather than in the direction he wants to go.

    Do you think that is caused by the feet not landing simultaneously? Or that this hint will help him make the split step more efficient? If so, I'd like to know why, because I've seen people with useless split steps because they were landing simultaneously, causing real issues to push off in any direction.
     
    SimonCarter likes this.
  14. SimonCarter

    SimonCarter Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2018
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    76
    Location:
    France
    Thank you everyone you are always very helpful! That is a lot of information to process. Trying not to focus on too many things at a time here what I take from your inputs :

    - Being lower is still one the main focus
    - My split step is indeed to jumpy and need to be improved especially training from a neutral position (both feets forming a line that is parrallel to the net maybe right foot very slightly in front, i think there was some misunderstanding between you about that point but I got it). This was worsenened because I tried some follow up movement sometimes from the back to the forecourt.
    - Landing my two feets (almost) at the same time in the backhand corner to recover faster.
    - Less up and down movement!

    Even tho I feel like I improved a ton (thanks to you) since the beginning of this thread it looks like the points to work are still somewhat similar to what was first said.

    I have a single tournament on sunday I will try to keep (some) of those point in mind while playing as I view this one more as a practice session than an performance checkpoint especially this early in the season.

    @speCulatius thanks for the video they are greatly appreciated ;) I know it takes a lot of your time to publish all those!
     
  15. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    259
    Location:
    London
    I agree with nearly everything mentioned already, including this part about backhand corner footwork.

    However, when you land on your left foot after the scissor jump, it's not incorrect to land on your left foot. In de video you land on your left, pause, and then continue forwards with the footwork. In matches, you will sometimes be late, jump backwards, and you will be unable to land with your feet almost at the same time. It's not so much the jump or landing that will hamper you in matches, it's the pause.

    Rather than focusing on how you land, why not focus on moving forward faster after the shot. It is easier to implement and you will notice that if you are intent on going forward faster, your right foot will land faster. As soon as you touch the floor, go forwards. If you land falling backwards, this includes quickly forcing your torso forwards. Don't think too much about the mechanics, just focus on going forwards.

    I know you weren't focusing on speed in the video, but you should still try to achieve fluid efficient footwork, and the pause is not it.

    Also note that you shouldn't want to land falling or leaning backwards and therefore:
    I think trying to land with both feet simultaneously is an unnecessary roundabout way of forcing your body to lean forwards, but it probably works. Just realize that the body leaning forwards or at least being neutral is the important part.
     
  16. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    22,285
    Likes Received:
    3,761
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    I will keep to the split step to make things simple and less complicated.

    On the subject of useless split steps, I think it’s one component of movement away from centre. An important component but it is possible for it to be done correctly but have other parts of the body movement being inefficient reducing its benefit. This might the case with those people you observe.

    On the badmintoninsight video that @j4ckie linked earlier, the very good exercise is at 1.55 - falling from a bench going straight into split step, land both feet simultaneously on the front of the feet with the crouch and then moving off to the corner.

    Important points to note in this exercise which need emphasis are :

    A) not jump up off the bench - just try to drop off the bench
    B) try to progressively minimise the contact time on the ground

    Why the bench is good is that it forces the person to concentrate on either the forward or backwards movement. @SimonCarter used all four corners in his video. During training, I would advise trying to concentrate on either front or back movements but not both in a routine. Why training four corners straight off is a bad idea is because the learning process will be much slower and confusing. There’s always a temptation to try to do more - sometimes we need time to absorb the new movements and then some more time to make it more natural.
     
    #116 Cheung, Oct 29, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
    j4ckie likes this.
  17. akatsuki2104

    akatsuki2104 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Europe
    I think the problem with landing both feet simultaneously is that we tend to pause at the landing hence we lose the momemtum and the benefit of the split step. So as long as we start properly, I don't think it would slow you down.

    In this exercise, the focus is to start moving as soon as we land which is efficient.
     
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    22,285
    Likes Received:
    3,761
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Another perspective

     
    SimonCarter likes this.
  19. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,292
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    Location:
    Germany
    Regarding the angle of the feet: place the feet themselves perpendicular to the net in such a fashion that a line connecting them is parallel to the net :D when I speak about foot position and an angle I'm usually talking about that line, not the literal feet, sorry if that was unclear.

    Directional split steps are more advanced footwork, I'd leave that out until the basics are solid and then introduce them, same as shifting the base, adjustment of the feet/hips,...

    Where I'm from, the footwork for the RTH corner is called scissor jump (because your legs move across each other similar to a scissor), or maybe I'm just having a stroke.... A parallel jump in the forehand corner (foot position not changing in the air) is called 'China jump'
     
  20. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    22,285
    Likes Received:
    3,761
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Lettng the heels touch the ground will increase the contact time.

    Honestly speaking , split step is a basic component of changing directional movement. I have seen awful long term movement problems in players who can't split step well. It's far easier to build up advanced movement in players who have a good split step.
     

Share This Page