People I Would Read

Discussion in 'Introduction' started by quisitor, Dec 13, 2006.

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  1. quisitor

    quisitor Regular Member

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    Since this is my Intro thread, I guess I have a bit more freedom as to what I write. :)

    It's come to my attention that some people are actually trying to learn things from this forum :eek: rather than being here for any of a variety of other reasons.

    A Guide to Reading

    If you're new to Badminton Central and are seeking accurate information to help you improve your game you should beware the pitfalls of blindly accepting what people write on these forums. Much of what you will find discussing the techniques and technical aspects of the game is misinformation. Opposing and contradicting views can be found on many popular topics such as the biomechanics of power production and the optimality of racket stiffness-string tension combinations. It's not usually the case that people will deliberately attempt to mislead. It's only natural that since badminton is a highly technical sport, in which many of the finer points still are not well understood, there will be some misinformation out there. Even if 90% of posters seem to agree with a certain view, one should be cautious-- often people who are actually knowledgeable cannot be bothered or do not have the time to provide input into the multitude of topics that float around. This forum also contains a large clique of people in the dark who are good at perpetuating their own views and discouraging some users who are actually quite knowledgeable from challenging them. Right and wrong often becomes a matter of who speaks the loudest and most frequently.

    Beware of the following when weighing the validity of the data you read on this forum:

    1. People who try to come across as if they know everything or they know "the answer" to a particular question and you get this same impression after reading several of the threads that they've posted in. Usually these people have not sufficiently examined an issue in depth, and though they appear to be leaders, are probably just followers who have heard from others and would relay this as the truth.

    2. People with high post counts. If they post on every thread available, they are either the most knowledgeable individual you'll ever meet or some of their posts are junk. If some of their posts are junk, there's no reason to believe the veracity of many of their posts on the finer points of the game.

    3. People who will not give up an argument and always feel the need to continue posting in a thread. Some users consider this place to be their home and would never like to admit that they're wrong since they think would be losing face by doing so. These users think themselves bigger than they ought to. What it really shows is that they lack confidence in their viewpoint and must thus attempt to show to the world that they are correct and the other person is wrong. If an individual is really that stubborn about their views then even if their information was once correct, it is probably 20 years outdated-- yet they continue to hold on and on and on...

    4. People who frequently make snide remarks, insult other users or denigrate threads. Though they may think themselves bright, intelligence is demonstrated by one's ability to coherently attack a view or topic; not one's ability to attack an individual. Better yet, if the topic is one that allows for open-mindedness, substitute the word "attack" with "discuss".

    5. People who consistently just say "I agree." Perhaps for some topics, a majority vote is the way to go if it's a subjective topic. But usually there is little value added by such remarks. For topics that should have a more definitive answer, a consensus is not always the correct answer. A well-presented argument in which the "truth" has been correctly elucidated should stand on its own merits. Comments like "I agree" do not strengthen such arguments.

    6. People who do not address the issues at hand. These users will often mis-quote or mis-interpret a person's point of view. They will discuss oranges when the initial post was about apples. If backed into a corner where their argument seems to be losing credibility, they will attempt to re-interpret things to make the discussion about bananas.

    7. People who just regurgitate views. These users tend to repeat the exact same things someone else has said with a word or two being changed, or perhaps an extra comma here or there. Normally they will repeat what they've read, increasing the "truthfulness" of the view. So if user A says "I think .....xyz", user B will probably say "Clearly it must be the case .....xyz". These groupies are incapable of cognition on their own and will often defer to the "more respected and knowledgeable" users. If one's knowledge and understanding is true, one need not defer.

    People I Would Read

    There is useful information to be gained. The archives go back a long way and much of the good information is from the past (when there were fewer users on this forum and a larger proportion were interested in the technical aspects of the game). So rather then reading topics on page 1, then page 2, etc... I suggest doing a 'Search' and reading the threads that certain members have posted in. Below is a list, which I might update at a later date--I don't have the time to sift through threads, so I'm sure I'll be omitting some names.

     
  2. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    I must put myself in the 'LOUD' category. I call myself 'The Big Bad Mean Borneon BaddyNut' with reason :D

    Ants & Sir Dink should defo be among your top list IMH(but loud)O

    cheers
    TBBMBB(N)
     
  3. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    quisitor, welcome....and my comment..

    ...quisitor, welcome aboard, glad to have you..:) .i've personally been reading several of your posts & all, if not most, of which i've found very interesting and informative...:cool:
    However, here's my 2 cents on your intro(hope you don't mind me commenting):
    IMO, like what you've said in your opening intro, that the readers should be "aware of the pitfalls of blindly accepting what people write on these forums" i think it's because of those different and varying point of views that make this special forum what it is. If one is to look back to 5-7 yrs ago when BC started, one will see how popular this forum has become. Sure, at that time, the topics and subjects presented were "informative" and "useful" and "larger proportion were interested in the technical aspects of the game". But i'm sure kwun and the rest of the mods couldn't be happier with how this forum has expanded/grown. With all the different & multi-interest sub-forums and topics it offers, I think as long as people can share their own *different* p.o.v.(point of views) and opinions on different topics & subjects WITH respect and WITHOUT having to go the "personal" route, it should be fine. I also think, one of the best thing this forum has offered is an opportunity to acquire new friendships with people all over the world.

    Anyways, this forum is for us all to share and for us all to enjoy. And we ALL should feel free and comfortable to contribute at least to this forum, if not to the sport that we love, badminton, and all its relevance.;) :cool:
     
    #3 ctjcad, Dec 13, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2006
  4. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    if the moderators want the badmintonforum to be a high information to noise ratio site, he would force all registrants who want to post to pass an IQ test, EQ test, english test, math test, etc. and end up having a dozen of so active members. I do not think it's the desire goal of the founder Kwun. If someone want to search for and read badminton content written by authors with recognized credential, he/she should go to wikipedia or find some PhD papers (which links provided in this site). Quisitor thinks the BC members of multi-linguistic, multi-cultural, various ages and education background should write and contribute to this forum like himself. He forgot the mandate of this site founded by Kwun is to foster and promote the sports of badminton through connection of people around the world with unbiased restriction on age, education level and race. Quisitor thinks 99.96% of us are naive little lemmings who contribute nothing but noise. I apologize for the 99.96% of us that we can not adhere to the high standard of Quisitor and our membership in BC is undeserving. We should all sit back and wait unabatedly for the suggested list of high S/N ratio members to posts and bow to them for their priceless gifted contribution.

    cooldoob6 and taneepak in your recommended read list? LOL, you take the cake quisitor:p I lost count on the number of instance where I stomp on their proposal, reasoning, and claims. High N/S ratio indeed.

    Quisitor reminds me of an old member/poster Brent. Both writes eloquently and use their command of english as a way persuade other of their logic and reasoning power. Therefore, their observation and conclusion are divine as well. However, it doesn't work for all readers tho:p
     
    #4 cooler, Dec 13, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2006
  5. hiroisuke

    hiroisuke Regular Member

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    I always knew I was a fool, and Quisitor confirmed it. :p

    Hey, there, nice write-up, I agree with you on some points. Unfortunately, you're quite the idealist, and unfortunately, perfection isn't always reachable.

    I do quite agree (Another part that annoys you, eh?;)) with ctjcad in that this forum was not meant (I'm doing some interpretation here now, hope I don't screw up) solely for the expanding of knowledge into the realms of badminton technology, physics, and technique. If we are to dig to the roots of badminton, we shall find that it is a sport (Hopefully we all know that). Sports were created not so that people could "get things right" and know everything about it correctly, but so that we, as humans, could enjoy ourselves, foster good relationships and harmony, and meet other people.

    As a result, this forum, I do believe, was created in that spirit. Certainly, having the right technique and understanding of badminton will most likely prevent unnecessary injuries and good health :)D), but it's not entirely necessary to play the game. Furthermore, by removing the idiots (Like me, 'cause I'm part of that everyone else list, trust me:)), you remove the fun. We are, after all, a WWF (World Wide Family), and within families, it is generally expected that there are going to be geniuses, idiots, hot-tempered fools, mistakes, etc. It's human nature.

    Nonetheless, kudos to your extensive analysis of how a forum would ideally be running if we all wanted to improve our techniques.

    Hope I see ya 'round!:cool:
     
  6. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    the brent i was referring to was way back when BC was ran under the old format. It is not the same brent who is currently a member of BC
     
  7. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    Wow, who needs to read "Revelations" when when we have Quisitor?! :D
     
  8. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ^^^Oh, yeah...^^^

    ..hehe, i wonder where's kwun's name on that list??....hmm, wait, maybe Mr. Q is still searching and filtering out all the posts & names...:p :D ;)
     
  9. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Regular Member

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    I don't think you should just read the posts of certain people to get the right "answers". Who knows if there is only one correct answer? I think the logic and quality of a post should be most important, not who write it.
     
  10. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    badminton central forum is what it is by its name, a forum. the philosophy of the site is as mentioned to promote badminton. the forum does this via a medium that allows anyone in the world to come and discuss badminton topics.

    now the nature of such a medium is that not everyone here is a professional or a qualified coach. there bound to be some amount of misinformatoin. it is not unlike in the real world where you meet and talk to people, sometimes you gets a informative conversation, sometime the other guy is just talking about BS.

    quisitor made a good attempt at pointing out whose posts one should trust. which is fairly well thought out. i don't think quisitor is trying to say that whoever he do not recommend should disappear from the forum, but rather should be read with some caution and not to be treated as the true gospel of badminton.

    the categorization however, is rather subjective. everyone has the freedom to choose whom to read or not.

    what i don't agree with is that any names should be pointed out. we have 20,000 members and 450,000+ posts afterall, unless if one has read all of them one should not be qualified to make such an exhaustive claim.
     
  11. myself.

    myself. Regular Member

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    i agree...lol
    a warm welcome to bc
    best regards
     
  12. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    by his account, you're damn right!!:p U had just proven his point vividly


    5. People who consistently just say "I agree." Perhaps for some topics, a majority vote is the way to go if it's a subjective topic. But usually there is little value added by such remarks. For topics that should have a more definitive answer, a consensus is not always the correct answer. A well-presented argument in which the "truth" has been correctly elucidated should stand on its own merits. Comments like "I agree" do not strengthen such arguments.
     
  13. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Welcome to the forum.

    maybe its not so easy to put people/posters into categories like knowledgable/somewhat knowledgable/no-clue...

    I am sure most uf as have different background, education, experiences etc. And some know more about physics, some have a longer badminton-career and practical experience to rely on, some knows more about training-aspects, some about statistics, some about pros etc etc..

    What I am trying to say is that some poster may be very knowledgable in one aspect or field, and totally uneducated in another.. So I think trying to "label" posters has little or no meaning..

    The nice thiing about BF is that from many different peoples perspective and views expressed, you yorself can then draw your own conclusions, or seek information from other sources to confirm or refute resoning on the different topics discussed...

    /Twobeer
     
  14. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Personally, I have very much mixed feeling after reading the original post from "quisitor".

    No doubt, there's some good intention to start on the topic. Hey, everyone wants to get the "best", "fastest", "most accurate" and what so ever information when s/he is searching for a topic. However, who can guarantee you that you hit the jackpot every single time? Not this free forum, nor any existing paying services.

    Personally, I like this forum. It's like a family, like a society. You have all kinda characters, and you communicate. If you are willing to learn, you will find your own efficient way of learning, even if some times it means by mistakes. A good student to me, means the ones knows how to learn, how to summerize, and how to turn a "bad thing" into a "valueable lesson". If you just provide perfect hand out to a ppl, it's not encourage him/her to learn, but rather further disable him/her, as they will be spoiled and losing the ability of how to observe and think.

    The forum provides fair amount of freedom to ppl. Ppl provide good knowledge, share stories, trade jokes (once a while and in an acceptable level) or even share painful experiences. Personally, I don't see what's wrong with that. If you are researching for a PHD paper, you might think 99% are junks, and "simply not worth to read". Well, if so, no one force to read.

    However, isn't the above against your own theory? What about the purpose I come here is to relax and social, and just share some laughs and tears? I might not interested in any technicals, or whatever head balance or shaft stiffness of a racket? Then, isn't your "reading guide" very much mis-leading??? Simply because, I am just a "joe doe", and just looking for fun, and you provide me all the well written technical documents???

    Again, I feel comfortable here, simply because I feel it's a family. Everyone feels free to share the ideas. If you divided us up into several "layers", or with any "not as perfect rankings", then I just feel weired. Are we here to making some friends, or simply coming here to compare "hey, am i better than you, or worse"? :eek:

    My suggestion is, such "reading guide" is too objective, and a bit offensive (depend on each individual). You have your rights to create your own "reading filter", but please don't ask (or suggest) us to follow. Someone's meat is someone else's poison. You like something, does not mean everyone else should agree. :cool:
     
  15. CoolDoo6

    CoolDoo6 Regular Member

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    Wow, one is glad to have made the list. Given the the number of anti-doo6, doo6-has-no-clue, and doo6-has-no-COG posts, one is both delighted and honoured to receive a mention.

    Life and game is a journey of discovery, and a little bit of fun. Each and everyone may find a different path to the truth. Regretably, one's approach is to stop at every tree and give it a good shake to see what fruits of knowledge fall out of it, or indeed what animals of expert have climbed to the top and if they can be dislodged from their possibly loose grasp.

    One wishes you long and prosperous stay in these parts. Welcome !
     
    #15 CoolDoo6, Dec 14, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2006
  16. quisitor

    quisitor Regular Member

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    Hey Jug! Didn't mean to exclude you--if I had a Fun list you'd definitely be on it but the list could end up pretty long.

    People not on my list may have been overlooked and are certainly knowledgeable in at least some areas.

    More accurately, I should have referred to the scientific technicalities (biomechanics, techniques, physics of equipment, etc.) of badminton. Some people provide excellent information in other areas and may (by choice) have decided not to post on the science of badminton.
     
  17. westwood_13

    westwood_13 Regular Member

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    I also motion for removal of names. This is not out of a feeling of uninclusion (is that even a word?), but just out of politeness and having respect for all the members of this forum.

    Even the ones who you did mention may wish to have their names removed, as this could result in a high volume of messages coming to them with questions, etc.

    Thus far, your posts have seemed to be on controversial subjects that are bound to incite a large response. I am hoping that this is simply a coincidence.
     
  18. quisitor

    quisitor Regular Member

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    No worries-- I almost never get offended. :)
    In some of those threads, people have no doubt commented that I must be offended, etc, etc... but usually I'm just sitting back rather amused (or bemused if I'm really wondering about the origins of the other person's logic) :cool:

    Likely I should offer up some type of reply (to show I'm not offended :confused:) but I typically don't reply to views that I feel have no merit and views that I agree with (since I agree with them), which as a whole constitute about 90% of posts.

    ;)

    I agree. Since you've read my other posts, you'll no doubt have inferred that I've always been a proponent that all members should feel welcome. Which begs the question-- what have I been an opponent to... :cool:
     
  19. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    That's a good sign..and to add..

    (just want to add to this, if y'all don't mind)..
    ..IMO, that's a very good sign that there are people out there willing to "divulge" and share their own opinions in the different topics. As different or radical or extreme their opinions may be, as long as we respect each others' opinions, that's all that matters. And that's what makes this whole forum special.
    Btw, i'm sure Mr. Q(as i like to call quisitor;)) can feel the "warmth" of this forum. Just look at how many members who've replied to his intro. & welcomed him already..;) :):cool:
     
    #19 ctjcad, Dec 14, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2006
  20. quisitor

    quisitor Regular Member

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    Hrmm... now I feel kind of hungry. Apples or oranges... tough choice; suggestions? ;)

    When did I ever say I make contributions to this forum:confused: I average about 1.5 posts per month--that's hardly a contribution.

    Well, that all sounded really good. But didn't you just say that Quisitor thinks members of various languages, cultures, ages and education should write and contribute to the forum? And then you said that this is actually similar to the mandate of this site? Sorry if I fail to see your point.

    Lemmings? :cool: Are those what are used to make lemonade? Well I must admit your psychic powers are extraordinary and I've learned much about this individual you call "Quisitor".

    ;)

    Uhhh... thanks :confused:
     
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