Only long high serve allowed.

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by Simeon, May 6, 2019.

  1. Simeon

    Simeon Regular Member

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    I have been thinking in my head, that if only high long serves were allowed.

    Please, discuss with me about the weak points this idea has.
     
  2. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    What precise rule do you suggest?

    We can easily judge long – all you need is an additionally line somewhere around the midcourt. But this would require changing all badminton courts over the world! This alone is enough to disqualify this rule change.
    But high is much harder to measure. Sure, in international tournaments HawkEye could be adapted to recognize a serve that is, say, lower than 3m above the ground 2m behind the net, but how could you possibly judge that without HawkEye?

    In general, we want as few rules as possible. This makes the game easier to understand for beginners; if each rule takes 5 minutes to fully learn and there are a million badminton players learning each year, that's a lot of time you can save by having fewer rules. In general, spectators prefer rallies being decided by the players and not fault calls by officials.
    In addition, we want as much variability as possible, and this includes serves.

    Many small kids would be unable to play badminton by the official rules if they were modified as you suggest, because they are not able to produce a high serve. Today, that's not so much of a problem – games between 5year olds happen in the midcourt and frontcourt only, with every high shot over that basically being an outright winner. With this rule change, we would have to have a beginner ruleset so that young kids/beginners can play as well.

    On the other and of the spectrum, being in the defensive is a huge disadvantage, especially in Men's Doubles and Mixed Doubles. If all serves must go high and long, the server will always be in the defensive, and thus serving will be a significant disadvantage. It's not a huge fairness problem, but it would warp scores; a 21:12 in Men's Doubles would be very different from a 21:12 in Women's Doubles. Currently, serving and receiving is balanced well across all disciplines.
    Scores would be much closer in MD and XD, but if you are serving at 20:18, then the game would be basically over.
    With receiving becoming such an advantage, the coin toss at the start of a match would become much more important – do we really want that and the ensuing discussions?

    We also want to have as few rule changes as possible; every rule change will alienate some players and federations, and there is considerable effort spent on discussion, enforcement, training, and administration in the process of switching to a new ruleset.
    In contrast to previous rule changes which were minor changes – for example allowing frame shots, scoring in every rally instead of only on serve, prohibiting serves that strike the feathers first, and switching to fixed service height – this would easily be the greatest change in the sport since the court became rectangular. Why should we break with so much tradition?

    Rules are only there to make the game not boring. For example, if we would completely remove all service rules, then professionals would score 100% with the serve, which would make a very boring game. If double hits were allowed like in volleyball, the receiver would win virtually every rally, which would be boring as well. How does this rule achieve that?

    In summary, introducing a rule that all serves must be high and long has numerous gigantic disadvantages, enough to seriously harm the whole sport. I fail to see any advantage that introducing this rule would provide.
     
    #2 phihag, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  3. Simeon

    Simeon Regular Member

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    Good points, thank you.
    The first part of your reply was thinking about my idea, but on the latter part your thoughts were drifting all over around serving, and I have difficult to get when you are talking to me.
    Anyway I will continue when I have time to sit down.
     
  4. Simeon

    Simeon Regular Member

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    At the moment I leave out the expenses of changing the court painting. Just thinking what could be the ideal way to start the rally. Wanting to get rid of service judge and his new equipments.
    Think about the positive meaning of the english word "to serve". It would be a respectful neutral start if the server just helps the opponent to begin the fight by serving high serve. Only then starts the selfish part of the game. And only then comes the technical freedom to beat the opponent.
    The hight of the serve could be about 2 meters minimum above the net. For server's own sake it is better not to try the limit, because it would be easy to kill too low serve.
    I am thinking about adults game now.
     
  5. LCVBadminton

    LCVBadminton New Member

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    The trouble is, you'd still need to have some sort of way to check heights. Even if you remove the regulation that the server has to serve from below a certain point and you allow them to do whatever, you'd still need a way to ensure that the shuttle goes above your specified height over the net.

    Giving the receiver an advantage is something you may feel would be beneficial, but not everyone will agree. Rallies become rather boring if every one starts off with a high serve and then a smash, especially since the smash will likely end the rally in many cases as the receiver will be perfectly in position and able to smash to anywhere in the court. To make the rallies less monotonous one would either have to make the court narrower so that the receiver can't smash so wide, or make the court longer so that the receiver is pushed back further by the serve.

    The serve is already a fairly weak stroke. A decent player rarely loses a point to a serve, and the BWF has worked hard to keep it this way by outlawing the Sidek serve and enforcing service height regulations. The way it is right now has it so that both the server and the receiver start in a neutral position in the rally, and both have an equal opportunity to win. This seems the most appropriate to me, as it allows the players' skills to shine the most rather than anyone being hampered or bolstered by their service role.

    For games that are just for fun and often lopesided, maybe a club rule could be to have the stronger players only serve long so that it evens out a bit. But most of the time people seem pretty decent about this, and won't go all out on weaker opponents anyway. Plus you can't learn if you don't face challenges.

    Just my perspective.
     
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  6. Simeon

    Simeon Regular Member

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    Really good points.
    How to determine the height of the serve? Let's say two meters above the net is the minimum. The server serves and the shuttle flyes two meters above the net at the highest point of course. Now the receiver stays passive and tells that the serve was only 1.80 meters... Well, here is the problem, indeed. Help
     
  7. Cesium

    Cesium Regular Member

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    Only long serving would give the receiver a HUGE advantage. The receiver can just stand at the back of the court and hit winners.

    At the highest level, it would just be players trading points back and forth.
     
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  8. Simeon

    Simeon Regular Member

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    Hm.. What does the statistic say. When a high level male player smashes from between the two back lines, the possibility of winning by that hit is less than 40 prosent, right. When you watch them playing, you notice that they avoid smashing from so far. Usually they start smashing when the shuttle is going to land in front of the doubles back serving line.
     
  9. LCVBadminton

    LCVBadminton New Member

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    The reason for that is that in a match you have to first get to the back fast enough to hit a great smash, then instantly reverse your direction and get back to the front. This is really difficult, and typically you'll be slightly off balance or you'll get there a little late and not have as much angle or as many options.

    If you know that the serve is going to the back, you don't have to get back, hit, and reverse. You just stand at the back, hit at the optimal position, then spring forward. Since you're never off balance or late your shot will be more potent than the typical smash from the backline, and since you don't have to reverse direction to get back to the midcourt you can recover a lot faster.
     
  10. Simeon

    Simeon Regular Member

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    Yes you are right about the recovery time. But even if you jump smash well prepared near the back line, the reaction time after that is against you. Your opponent has the maximum reaction time, but You have to land and choose the direction where you have to run, when your opponent allready blocked your smash.
     
  11. Cesium

    Cesium Regular Member

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    In a singles game, a player has to move from base position to the back and then perform a smash.

    Which is completely different from standing at the back waiting and then performing a smash...
     
  12. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    Are you trying to make the badminton game as boring as possible? ;)
     
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  13. Simeon

    Simeon Regular Member

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    Can you also give a living image how the the game will be boring?
     
  14. llrr

    llrr Regular Member

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    I would say currently all serves are neutral. Can you think of a serve in badminton that gives the server an advantage right now?
     
  15. Simeon

    Simeon Regular Member

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    Yes, legal serves are ok with non beginners. I just wish we could get rid of judging what was illegal serve. Also I don't like when someone makes the serve, but the receiver has hardly raised his eyes from the floor.
     
  16. llrr

    llrr Regular Member

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    Well actually the introduction of the new service rule was to remove possible benefits for the server, because with the old rules, short serving is easier for taller people. In that sense the rule is already helping the receiver. Regarding the second point, I think it's just courtesy to wait til the receiver is ready before serving. If the receiver takes too long that's why umpires exist.
     
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  17. Simeon

    Simeon Regular Member

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    I would like to see changes, which concern all players. The great majority has not the help from umpire or servise judge.
     
  18. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    I thought it should be self explanatory :D.

    Taking away half the service options will leave you with one type of service that will not have a lot of variation. Rallies will be one sided with receiver attacking all the time with servers trying desperately to save the rally. The serve is already not an advantage, you will see more often players choose to receive rather than serve in the beginning of the match.

    We may at this point to stop counting points in order to avoid the umpires altogether if we hate them so much... ;)
     
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  19. Simeon

    Simeon Regular Member

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    I don't know from where comes this idea, that by smashing from the back line you are winning points all the time. The basic rule says you should avoid smashing from the back line.
     
  20. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    On which level?
     

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