Motivation problems against weaker opponents

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Zohar, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. Zohar

    Zohar Regular Member

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    Whenever I play with weaker opponents, I have a serious motivation issue. I play barely 50%, make careless mistakes, and often just lose the game. Any tips for that?
     
  2. llrr

    llrr Regular Member

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    Just try to focus on each and every point? Try to win 21-0? Give yourself a challenge for the game. Also, if you lose to them then they're not weaker to you, just think of it like that. If you think that you're a stronger player, then prove it by smashing them.
     
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  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    This
     
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  4. badmintony

    badmintony Regular Member

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    Playing with weaker opponents for me is a perfect chance to master those moves from quite fancy to fancy ones

    Sent from my SM-J320F using Tapatalk
     
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  5. Okaharu

    Okaharu Regular Member

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    also helps keep you motivated as they'll be extra amazed when you pull off a superb shot ;)
    sometimes you just need that raw response of pure awe and glistening eyes :D
     
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  6. Zohar

    Zohar Regular Member

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    Some more details.

    Sometimes I have a weak night, and a weak player (kind of a beginner) is all I have. If it's only one game, then it may not be an issue.
    To motivate myself, we are starting the game at 16-0. Some nights I win, and some nights I can lose 21-19. Either way, from this point, I lose respect for the other side, and maybe because I'm tired, and there's nothing to drive me, I stop making an effort. It can be as bad as they are winning from a 0-0 game.

    If I'm only half tired, then I make an effort on the good shots. But whenever the opponent give me an easy ("kill me") shot such as a drop from the back line when I'm in the net just waiting, or a high shot to the center of the court (for a kill smash), I would just roll my eyes, stop playing, and mostly miss the shot. Then, my game would start to degrade.

    If I'm playing doubles in an unbalanced game in our favor, then now we have a similar problem with two people. It appears that this phenomena is not limited to me, but I may respond worse than average. People usually won't play singles at all at this situation and would just prefer to go home. I think their rational is that singles is very taxing for them, and it must worth their while to bother. In doubles, the situation is that some people don't mind a slow, careless game with beginners, and they don't mind playing weakly on 50%.
     
  7. llrr

    llrr Regular Member

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    I think an important part of enjoying sport is playing with and against people that are at a similar skill level to you. There is literally no point playing someone and needing to start with a 0-16 handicap. You'd take nothing away from that type of game. Personally if the skill difference is that big I would prefer to not play.
     
  8. Borkya

    Borkya Regular Member

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    I 10000% have the same problem as you. I play so often (more often than my club) that I end up once/twice a week having to play with other clubs which are at a lower level. I can play very lazy and still win more often than not so it sets me up for reinforcing my bad habits. But the truth is if I play to my fullest ability I end up kinda bullying them and it's not fun for them or me. But if i play a night with lazy habits, I usually start the next day STILL playing lazy and I need a few "good" games to get me back into proper form.

    So I've also often thought about if it is worth playing with lower level people or bad because it reinforces my bad habits. I fall on the side of "worth it" even if it messes me up a little just because I like playing so much. Since top players don't play everyday it's ends up being a choice between playing lazy or not playing....I'll choose lazy every time. I'm just eager to play and I prescribe to the 10,000 hours idea so more game play is good experience. (Although I would never play with a beginner unless they were my friends. The lowest level I'll play with is lower intermediate. Playing beginners is just a waste of time.)

    I also try to focus on one aspect that I'm weak on and if I try to improve it won't seem so much like I'm bullying them. These days it's my return of serve. I focus on that and the rest I'll play more relaxed. I also will play back of court (I train and normally play front) so that makes it a bit more fun for me.


    I also disagree with this. I've beat MUCH stronger players just because they aren't playing to their full ability and I know it, and they know it. I can walk around and brag that I beat them, but everyone knows if I beat them it's only because they didn't really play. It's the same when weaker players beat me. Winning doesn't prove you are better than someone because there are so many factors to a game.

    And smashing on much weaker opponents is kinda a **** move. If they are closer to your level then it's fine and helps them, but if they are far below you, then it's better to try to play a "smarter" game (with tactics that can give them a chance if they focus on footwork) than just smash them to oblivion. If there are two players with similar levels then of course, do whatever it takes to prove you are better. But with big differences it is really obvious and no one needs "proof" that you are better.
     
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  9. llrr

    llrr Regular Member

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    I don't think this was what the OP was referring to. If anything, playing around against a weaker player is not respecting your opponent enough. If I play against someone far stronger than me, I'd rather they kill me 21-0 than playing around and either barely win, or let me win. Like you said, this type of win is meaningless and you don't feel any satisfaction anyway.
     
  10. Borkya

    Borkya Regular Member

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    No, I don't mean take the game as a joke and to not respect your player. I kinda mean the opposite. I feel like it's the job of a better player to "pay it back" to weaker players (for all the help you got.) So instead of a 21-0 two minute game in which the stronger player just smashes the weaker player (which no one enjoys and no one learns anything) the stronger player should change their tactics. Instead of smashes they should send the ball to various parts of the court to give the weaker player some semblance of chance and to also give them a chance to practice footwork and tactics. Of course there should be a smash now and then to show them the folly of their lift or whatever, but I see it as a chance for the stronger player to kind of "coach" the weaker player on the tactics of a higher level game. I also see it as a chance for the stronger player to find different solutions to shots than just smashes. Way too many intermediate/upper intermediate men rely on their smashes and when confronted with actual intelligence their game falls apart fast and they wonder why they can't progress to the next level.

    When playing against lower level people I'm not focused and don't get in proper ready form which makes me slow to react to shots. But my shot placement is basically unconscious at this point so I can win with a lazy body and good shot placement (so then I keep playing that way and if I lose a game so what? I lost because I was being lazy and I know it). Then when I play higher level people I still have the lazy body mindset and I am quickly whipped until I get focused again. I think that's what the OP is talking about right? The mental/motivation part of playing a motivated game when you have a weak opponent. A solution, to me, is to see it as a training game for the weaker players. Not a chance to humiliate them but to help them improve.
     
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  11. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Even against weaker opponents there is room to improve. It’s not like you guys are the perfect players right?
    I enrolled in a second club this season where a world top 30 pro player (mixed double - Ronan Labar) play from time to time as it is his father who is the president of the club and he is never saying no to a game even against a beginner. You can see he tries things here and there but he plays hard, sweat, and win his game 21-2. I guess if he can do it you guys can too.
     
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  12. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    IMO if you put handicaps on the court or don't play 100% this tells your opponent in an arrogant way that you are clearly the better player on court and it's a burden to play them. To me this is a very disrespectful way and maybe they also play just 50, because they are nearly safe and don't fight or are pissed of because of this arrogant attitude.

    For me it is a clear weakness. If you can't play 100% against everyone it is disrespectful and if you loose they are better than you, because not what you can matters, it also matters what you do.

    I have played vs. players which are so good that I could never reached them. I also played players that I just need to wait for their error. I made the experience, that even the better ones play 100% this pushs me to play 100% and give my best which result in a better game for all on court. If somebody thinks "I can win, even when I play 50% trickshots" this is a disrectful attitude and the weaker opponents don't learn from their errors.

    If you play always 100%, even when you think you are the better player (I think you should ditch this thinking and judging of opponents) it have following benefits:

    • your opponents got shown any mistake or bad tactic -> they will learn from this, crappy play hide it
    • the game become better for all (you are not bored and opponent is motivated because you threat him equal and serious instead of seeing you treat them as fun and they will mirror this attitude)
    • if you play 100% the game is quicker over -> you get out of this game more early instead of unnecessary prolonging
    • everybody will enjoy a serious game instead of cat vs. mouse game experience
    • you don't go in an upcoming more serious game with a loose setting
    • it will motivate your opponents to become better
    • it will make you learn never to underestimate an opponent
    IMO playing serious and 100% just have advantages for both sides. If it's so unbalanced that a game don't make sense, I would offer to do drills and teach the player what I know to become better.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  13. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    I find it hard to play 100% against a player I know I beat also. Psychology can be tricky and hard to overcome. It also can mess up the following game because I kind of fall in sleep in the "boring" game.

    Despite that I think its disrespectful to not play serious.

    I would never ever lose to a player who is "worse". No matter what level you play, if you are a competitor you hate losing so you just dont lose to a weaker player. If you lost he was better than you!
     
  14. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    @Zohar Lee Jae Bok, made it a video a while ago about that as well:



    It's luxury to always have opponents which give everybody a thrilling game with unknown outcome. Especially in club nights. IMO a lot players have developed this setting "I want in club night an opponent slightly above me, giving a tight game, I want to improve so I need to be challenged and play a stronger opponent." During league or if you play tournaments you can't choose who you play. Never forget this. It's also very egocentric to just say "The game must always fulfill my requirements, I need stronger opponents, I need to be challenged and need to improve." The world isn't just about you. Give the other players and maybe weaker players the same things, which you also want for yourself and we all can be the stronger player and weaker one depending who enters.
     
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  15. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    As a matter of principle you may be right ("you should always give your best!"), but you have to realize that not everybody has the same goals as you. Normally I go easy if my opponents are (much) weaker than me. Once I thrashed my opponents, who are just one league lower. Guess what one of my opponents said after the game? "Well, that wasn't fun at all and worthless to me." Remember, this is a team player just like me, so guess what happens when I smash my way through actual beginners. Am I supposed to smash their head when they stay at the net after lifting? Or kill all their serves? I came across a lot of players that just want to hit the shuttle around a little after work; they don't really want to improve or being told their mistakes. If you keep on smashing everything they will actually think that is disrespectful behavior. Others -- this may sound unbelievable, but it's what I noticed -- want you to lower your level and play just a little above theirs so that they have a challenging game and still have the feeling they have a chance. Let's put it that way, I have been told to play less intensive a lot more than people telling me to really try and give everything. And in the latter case, why should I? If I can beat you with deception, anticipation and defense alone, why should I give 100 %?

    A few points I'd like to add, not specifically addressed to you:
    • "Game recognizes game." applies here. Do you actually believe a beginner or lower intermediate player notices the way you construct a rally and outplay him, let alone actually know what his mistakes were and what to improve? Maybe a few incredibly talented and gifted people.
    • Not always the better player wins the game, but the player that has played better that day. Big difference.
    • Some people in my club think that if a game was tight, it was good. Nonsense. No need to elaborate. The score doesn't tell if the game was of high quality. So it's not always a good idea to play weak/strong against weak/strong.
    • Playing with weaker players actually makes you play worse over time. You pick up bad habits.
     
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  16. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    While I can agree with what he says and it all makes sense, this seems like utopia to me. No club I ever played at -- and I've been to a lot, trust me -- all players behave like that. No way Jose. What's more realistic is that much better players would rather leave than play with you or simply say no when asked.
     
  17. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    If you are one of the top 5 men players at a club, you should switch if you keep up this attitude or stay, but have this in mind to play easier opponents. I agree that many players at various clubs have this attitude, but to my surprise I have also met many players who give something back. Like having a player at my club who got a 100% sponsorship, but don't mind to play with hobby players for one game if no 4th player is there. And now you will wonder: he is just 19. It's the outcome of the night. If you have 6 games a night and have 1 of such games, you don't sacrifice much IMO. Frankly this arrogant players always wonder why club shrinks and badminton is so unpopular in our country, because the make it for every starter or low level player so difficult.

    The main problem is that a lot players at many clubs come away with such attitude and don't get punished for saying no. If you need to say "no" and wait for your three cuties which challenge you, you are 100% in the wrong club with your requirements and attitude. These people should also remember that the club boosted them to become so good, that they should also give something back. The pegboard system is a good way to make everybody to play everybody.
     
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  18. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    There is a fine line between holding back or treaten the game as a practice session of trickshots and deceptions to make fun out of your opponent. And as I wrote before: If a game don't make any sense I offer to do drills or feed to be a bit in movement instead of sitting around. Maybe you @Rob3rt play in a team below your level or the guy you played don't belong into any team?;) Especially in lower levels you have the biggest differences and huge inhomogeneity.

    If serious advanced players and beginners attend at the same time in the same hall, the organisation of the club is really bad. I know that some people don't want to play with any claims and just hit, but if they attend at a clubnight for advanced players, they can't awaited that anything goes to there standard.

    Same for high level players who attend as a pair in a hobby club night just to say "no" and play only singles against each other.

    I'm refering to OP, who is not nitpicking about who he plays and when, he has a motivation problems when the opponent is not challenging him enough so he can't keep motivate himself. So back to topic to his situation instead of finding any exception like Dieter Domke need to play Leggings-Heike.;)
     
  19. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    You got that right, but that's a whole other issue...

    Another good point, but most clubs around here are organized like that. In fact, only one of the 10-15 clubs around my area have done this separating you are talking about. And they took it to another level by banning the amateurs and recreational players into another gym, which has been frowned upon by most people around here. :D
     
  20. badmintony

    badmintony Regular Member

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    It may be a good idea for clubs who have both weak and strong players to have a regular combined pairings matches in the case of doubles matches so that the sessions also help the weaker players to gain some experience without being outmatched flat out.

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