restructure the adminstration In just few shorts years, Malaysia had Morten Frost, Park Jubong, Indra Gunawan and Misbun Sidek as head coaches with very similar poor results, so I don't think coaches are the problem of Malaysia badminton. Within these periods, Malaysia also produced capable players like Yong Hock Kin, Ong Ewe Hock, Hafiz, Roslin, Wong Choon Hann, Lee Tsuen Seng and Lee Chong Wei but all under-acheived(except Lee Chong Wei) in my opinion. I think it's time to look at the problem somewhere else on administrative side. Not sure why Cheah Soon Kit and Rashid Sidek were not included in the coaching staff flying to Athen as they are crucial in up to date preparation for each player under their charges. Lets just restructure the adminstration and see how it goes.
Thanks for your interesting disclosure! Your parents must be Malaysians and made sure you are born in in their own country and Selangor state as they have been in Brunei for more than 20 years and you are only 17 now. You must have been brought into the world during one of those annual home pilgrimages made by them! I admire your patriotism and the manner you put forward some of your arguments although I cannot seriously buy all of them. I still maintain that in the final analysis, it is the player who has to answer for himself. Although the time period is different, let me bring you back to the days of the first Thomas Cup held in 1949 at Queen's Hall in Preston, England. Malaya (Singapore was part of the team with Wong Peng Soon and Ong Poh Lim representing) stunned the badminton world when they beat Denmark 8-1. Hitherto, no Asian team was known to be so strong as the All England, which was then the de facto world championship that started as early as 1900, was dominated by the West, principally players from England, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden and even the USA, with their most famous singles player, Dave Freemann. But since the appearance of the Malayans in 1949, it was the turn for Asians to dominate, with Denmark (particularly Erland Kops, 5 times champ and Morten Frost, 4 times) being the only European country to spoil the aspirations of the Indonesians, Malaysians, Chinese and Indians. Of course one reason for the non-participation of the Asians in the All England during the early years was probably the lack of funds and the long distances they have to travel, often by sea. Yes, the first Malayan team had to brave the seas for many days (maybe a month!) to arrive in England in unfriendly cold weather in order to compete. Yet they demolished the Danish opposition 8-1. I don't think the Malayan players have better facilities or proper management than their Western counterparts at that time. Better coaches, probably unheard of! Malaya went on to repeat the TC story in 1955 when they handed Denmark another 8-1 beating in Singapore. And what was more astounding was this same player, Wong Peng Soon. At age 37, I repeat 37, Wong put up a superlative display by defeating, I presume, a much younger Joern Skaarup in three sets (then it was called 'set' and not 'game' as is now the case) 15-5, 16-18 and 15-4. The next day, he followed up with another scintillating performance and showed tremendous fighting spirit coming from behind with a first set loss of 12-15 to whip the great Finn Kobbero 15-0 in the second. He wrapped up the third set and match, 15-7. What I'm trying to emphasize is that the PLAYER himself makes the difference. Badminton maestro, Wong Peng Soon, is a shining example of sporting greatness for he lived for badminton. The limitations and shortcomings he faced during his time never quite affected him as he pursued his only goal and ambition to be the best badminton player in the world!
The different between a fighter and player who looking for incentives From my observation, yupp, not only in Badminton but overall, Malaysia sportsmen and sportswomen have been rewarded with high incentives, extra bonus (if they win any tournaments). Beside secure a job at banks, they also get allowance, and I always heard some parents said "No need to enter university, just good in one sport and you will become rich." Which is quite sad for me to hear that sentence. The environment has "evolved" the player become a gold digger who only play well when he get rewarded. Malaysia players are lack of "fighting spirit." I can't see the same fighting spirit that shown by Lee-Ra during the bronze medal game with Chinese pair. Misbun could be right about the focus and concentration on three players. But obviously the NSC may need to increase the budget for training and taxpayers like me will have to pay higher tax to support the training budget. In other games like swimming, government has provide them full scholarship to train at USA for years and no result, none of them go through to final even the former asia champion, Lim Keng Liat. After the session, their comment, they are not satisfy with the coach and wish to come back to Malaysia. At the first place, they left Malaysia for overseas because they complaint Local trainers unable to boast up their performance. The NSC need to be strict with the guidelines and explore more talents than depend on these seniors who only know how to juggling their words. I think the amount to be spend on the intensive project to get local talents will be cheaper than the 4 years abroad.
I think the 1st to go should be the BAM commitees. There is no point having the best coaches in the world but managed by a a lousy Badminton Assoc. The political parties should not be involved in sports. We have almost appointed all the best coaches in the world but ended up with most of them left due the too much interferance by BAM in thier coaching method &/or team selection. I think the coach should be given the full authority. LIke EPL the managers will always have the last say. Stop giving any excuse like BAM is short of funds to train the players or etc. Even Iraq foodballers can reach semifinals. Just accept that we, BAM, are lousy. I don't see any hope in malaysia badminton if they continue to run by the same team. This is exactly what had happened to the Malaysia football team as well.
Loh, I think we cannot look so far back as those years. The current demands and standards of the game require a different approach. Suffice to say, for M'sia, outcomes have been less than satisfactory despite coaches and players. So other aspects of the administration may need to be altered.
mmm. If my hunch is not wrong, the reason why CSK and RS din go along with the troup is because they say they 'have limited seats for coaches' to the trip to athens. Which I would translate as, some jerk of an idiot who doesn't even know much bout the sport goes in the place of a sportsman / coach. I'll post my more in-depth views on the rest of the posts on thursday, when I can relaxingly drink my cup of coffee and stary typing in peace.
I'd like to quote myself on this one. I did not say we should go with the foreigners and chuck our local ones. if you seee the "If your coaches aren't up to it, GET FOREIGN ONES WHO ARE DAMN WELL BETTER" I'd like to rephrase that to Get better coaches who are better than ours even if they happened to be foreigners. I'd a mention on that in the earlier post. The administration bit. Not many looked at it though, as they tried to bombard me with on my points regarding Misbun Sidek. I previously typed that first statement out because currently I do not see a head coach ready to take over or rather I do not see anyone in Malaysia capable of holding such a post. mmm. I do not think anyone paid attention to this small paragraph as everyone seemed to be in the hype to spray the ammunition against my 1 by 1 kevlar vest. If jug8man has said that our malaysian badminton has improved. Answer my question above. And jug8man has not addressed the bit on malaysian mentality and about the BAM listening to advice. Misbun sidek was holding the most important link between the BAM and the players. If he knew what was right for them, he should've been firm and stood up to the BAM and show them why he needed the extra staff, why he needed this not just sit back and lie down. So, what are you views again, as I tried to make it clear for the rest of the forumers here.
Well, i think the Malaysian did try their best in the Olympic Games but just not good enough to win a medal. The players , i believe have give their best to prepare for the Olympic games and surely it is a disappointment for the nation that they couldn't bring home any medal. I've heard a lots of opinion about the Malaysian performance in the Olympic Games , some say they don't have the fighting spirit, some say they are not prepare well , and others blame it on coaches, but personally i think it is more than that. The pressure to win a medal is too much even before the went for Olympic....... so what exactly is the problem with them? We cannot really know because we are not in their shoes , the answer only lies with them. In another way, their lost might able to bring new hope for the junior. As currently , i believe after the seniors retired , there won't be much quality player left in the national team for another 5 years...... the juniors are below par compare with the current world junior standard....... It is the time for BAM to think about the long term program to invest in more talented and potential young player instead of putting too much concentration in the national team and completely abandon the school/state development program. The state no longer active anymore as they don't have money to run their program. Singapore is very wise to introduce the National Sport School for a long term goal to produce the world class athlete..... certainly Malaysia should follow their example. The coaches are particularly uneffective not in terms of coaching but communication skills........ they are constantly rivalry among the local coaches and foreign coaches in terms of salary and results...... the local coach are very much jealous of the foreign coaches good pay and they believe they can do the same but the main intention is still money. To save the Malaysia Badminton , the association have to plan a systematic solution and change their mindset. The veteran players such as tan aik Huang, Tan Yee Khan , Ng Boon Bee all had given advise but no one pay attention to it........ Malaysian players are too individualistic in my opinion... no unity, no team spirit....... not that they really want to but it is from young they have been brought up like that by the coaches. Even the singles players were against the doubles players as a result of the rivalry betwwen single coach and double coach..... as a result , Malaysia always fail in the team event . In short , invest in a batch of young players and taught them the right mentality , a true champion's attitude and sportmanship spirit, and also unity among the players.... Many coaches left out the important part of bringing the player's characteristic inside and outside the court...... what's the point to have produce a champion but without a right attitude as a person? To learn badminton is not only to master the skill but along the way , to learn to be a good person as well.....
before i start spraying ammunition like you have put it, i would like to say im very impressed with some of your views and ever willingness to share your opinions on current issues. especially at your age when almost everyone at that age normally wouldnt give a hoot about current issues. though i do tend to find that your views tend to sway towards idealism, bare in mine that that is just my opinion. nothing more. im begining to think that you are the son of a malaysian ambasador i brunei or something. either way you have critical thinking and commendable ability in expressing yourself and your views.... cheers. now lets get it started........... 1) "If your coaches aren't up to it, GET FOREIGN ONES WHO ARE DAMN WELL BETTER" I'd like to rephrase that to Get better coaches who are better than ours even if they happened to be foreigners. im happy you have rephrased that sentence though to a certain extent you are still insinuating that we do not have the resource in able coaches. i do not agree. 2) ...my points regarding Misbun Sidek. I previously typed that first statement out because currently I do not see a head coach ready to take over or rather I do not see anyone in Malaysia capable of holding such a post. if this was trully how you feel, you should have stated this long before the olympics and not after. now this statement has very little credibility just like how Taneepak put it "the scapegoat fever is upon us". your opinion however well presented or 'fact-based' is now standing in a very long line of similar but most likely baseless and emotional accusations and pointing of fingers. your point does not look very solid now to me sad to say. also what great survey and scouting of development programs have you done in malaysia that can justify your view on no capable-credible coaches. most of the important ppl are behind the scenes to busy actually developing the sports from the grassroots than to bask in the media/press. they are all highly capable if given the task and responsibility. so is misbun IMHO. 3) I'd a mention on that in the earlier post. The administration bit. Not many looked at it though i went through your first post. dont see anything that really suggest that you had mentioned about the administration bit. 4) mmm. I do not think anyone paid attention to this small paragraph as everyone seemed to be in the hype to spray the ammunition against my 1 by 1 kevlar vest. If jug8man has said that our malaysian badminton has improved. Answer my question above. no development in women badminton....... i put that more to the malaysian culture. besides that i dont really see them being supported by the governing body. they get very little exposure and almost all the funds are spent on the men. imagine if you were the top malaysian badminton women player, you train 2 whole year only to be sent for the bi-annual sea games and thats about it... of course no dev lah and no incentive to stay in the team. and as you know dev of the sport is BAM responsibility and every malaysian citizen. not really just the head coach. his job is to handles the players going for tournaments and their preparation. in results like i have said 2003-2004 has been a satisfactory year compared to the previous years for malaysian badminton. we are actually seeing some women getting their brake and earning their respect as well. note WD and WS to a degree of relative improvement. Rome not built in a day lah kawan (friend in malay language)! 5) And jug8man has not addressed the bit on malaysian mentality and about the BAM listening to advice. hello? have you not read my first post in this thread? in what way did i not bazooka and machine gun and 200 meter sniper our malaysian mentality? perhaps that wasnt enough for you? re-read the post pls. BAM is a total diff issue. for all i know it is common practice for administrators in malaysia to meddle with the coaches work. and they always decide on a lot of stuff and dont really care what coaches think....... just look at malaysian football, national level and state level. 6) Misbun sidek was holding the most important link between the BAM and the players. If he knew what was right for them, he should've been firm and stood up to the BAM and show them why he needed the extra staff, why he needed this not just sit back and lie down. ah such beautiful idealism. i do miss the more innocent days.... 7) i remember you comparing malaysian badminton players to english soccer club players. just look at the diff in income. badders are pretty much middleclass citizens in malaysia to say the most. footballers on the other hand in England make hundred of thousands or even millions annualy. and the best part is they dont really need to perform internationaly cause they make big bucks just playing within the country and etc. also, since badders in malaysia are middle class citizens having to slog like a dog day in day out, plus the added pressure placed by the country, wouldnt it be so much easier for them, to just retire to a normal life with less stress and about the same if not more earnings from a normal job/business? this pretty much shows the lack of incentive for young talent to follow through in malaysia. it is how the economy is structured. cheers
How come the sudden torrent of critical comments/opinions only now where there were none before the Olympic Games? Why now, and not before? This is a sixtyfour-thousand question I am throwing at our instant and born-again critics. Where were you before? I even have a feeling that had Malaysia won a medal, which, frankly speaking, is not "even-stevens", the stuff now appearing in this thread would take a different turn. The reason why there were no such critical comments before are either they had none or, if they had, they were afraid to make themselves a laughing stock should events turn out differently. After the event there are a thousand and one critics. Before? Deafening silence!
i highly recommend that you read up on these issues/subjects 1) abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs. connect this to economic theories and then find a relation between economic activity and development funds for sport from opposite ends of the spectrum. 2) national sovereignity issues. differentiate sovereign with freedom and with independence. then compare the diff in malaysian history with great britain, japan or USA. thorough reading these im sure you will find out why IMHO your idealistic views are not really practical in the real world scenario. cheers
Actually, there were grumblings from some BFer's at Misbun during the poor showing of the M'sian team during the Thomas Cup. However, BAM did state their intention this year was the Olympics. I find Cheekygen's statement enlighting. M'sia may underperform in the next 5 years and the underlying structure of producing badminton players needs changing.
Very interesting and enlightening discussion on malaysian badminton. From an english view we have imported several top coaches, from Lee JB , PJB to Rexy and the chinese womens coach Yvette. These coaches have improved the players that already had the talent/ mentality :Archer, Robertson, Hallam, but have perhaps not done much for those "second rate" national players/ upcoming players. In short a great player will take advantage of a great coach but a great coach can't turn an 18 year old with only 90% of the required talent / attitude into a world beater. N Robertson is our true world class talent, I can remember when he was 16 and he was a unique player even then, his attitude (although sometimes questionable) , his shots, tactics were all very different to what you saw in other english juniors. I think Malaysia , much like England in badminton and other sports think they have a right to success based on the past. As Cheung says the game 20 years ago has no relevance to todays game. So like English players malaysians carry a burden of expectation based not on current talent but historical success. Rather than the AE singles win of Hafiz and md runner up this year being seen as major achievements they were seen as only stepping stones to bigger success which have proved beyond the players. Players from emerging countries such as Germany or Singapore are in a much better position, for them any success is heralded and they do not suffer in comparison with past champions. I think about six years ago at the All England malaysia didn't have a qtr finalist in any event, they were in danger of becoming a second class nation. Since then they have enjoyed a world no.1 singles player, an AE champion, World silver medalist, md no.1 pair and md AE ru pair. Ok so they have failed to land a olympic or world title but how many players do? When are only shooting for mens singles and doubles and there are some 15 pairs/players capable of beating anyone the chances of success are small. Look how indonesia have fallen, a country who had 4 pairs of md that were at the top and half the top 20 ms, until taufiks resurgence things looked bleak. There is possibly a question mark over the mental strength / long term motivation of their players, this may or may not be down to the coaches.
mmm. With all that has been mentioned here, I do not think any of my opinions will matter much to many bfers at this current time concerning malaysian badminton. Since my 'idealistic' views aren't practical, I would see no further point in adding to the discussion. However, I would like to add that many of the points mentioned in self-defense to my statements to me are mostly of unconventional and unproductive which will not help our malaysian badminton team. If what is mentioned by members on their opinions of retaining the services of misbun sidek is what they believe will be of benefit to the national team, then so be it. I am not the one who's running the show around here, I am not the one overseeing the development of our national team. Well said. Unfortunately this is the mentality in Malaysia who what I would describe play 'kampung' sports. For now, I would hold back my opinions on the current state of the sports in Malaysia as this would be the last post for a long time concerning the matter. If you want to stay where you are right now then go with the 'practical' ideas which have been done before and forget the 'theoretical' or 'idealistic' thoughs which have not been experimented with before. I also do not wish to add anymore philosophy or any of my opinions in this thread. From what has been said, I feel I do not owe anyone an explanation for what I have said and why I have said that. These are just the opinions of a 17 year old lad who was bored at that time he found the thread. mmm.
i dont really see malaysia underperforming i the future. what i do see however is malaysia performing, as well with many other countries performing well/better than before. this is already seen in the olympics. the playing field is now more even than ever before. almost every one is a 'world beater' now and there is less monopoly of the games by 'badminton power nations'. this loss of monopoly in my view is healthy for the sport and perhaps may help the game grow (commercially and globaly?). plus malaysia actually has a sport school to cultivate and develop sports (badminton included). it is the Bukit Jalil Sport School (BJSS) and has been running for years. so there is a solid development work/effort being done but where they go/what path they choose after school life plays an important role in the future of the sport in malaysia. just a thought.
Yes, I tend to agree that the playing field is much more level than before and no one nation can now claim that it has a monopoly in men's singles and doubles, not even China because their best have been beaten at the world's most prestigious tournament, the Olympics. There are Indonesia, Malaysia, Denmark and South Korea which can measure up. Other less badminton-dominant countries are also catching up fast. Certainly Malaysia is not really lacking in this department and it is not fair to place the blame solely on their coaches or other aspects of their training or preparation. Some have pointed out about the politics at BAM, about the inadequate junior programmes, exposure, funding, etc, yes this may partly be the case, but at the elite level, their national men players have often shared the international limelight. There will always be ups and downs and China has been a victim of this. Having taken the TC stranglehold from Indonesia, China succumbed in the Olympics. They failed in all the men's events. It may be the case that their singles players peaked too early. Other reasons have also been proffered. Conversely, Indonesia recovered from the TC debacle to triumph at the Olympics! What a reversal of fortunes! So China which seems to have prepared their players well and better than others has floundered. There seems to be everything at their players' disposal, yet they failed to live up to expectations. That is why I believe that it is the player himself who has to bear the brunt of his own failure. Malaysia will bounce back from their Olympics disappointment. Yes, changes willl be made, even in Indonesia's case and perhaps in other countries' badminton management and leadership as well, but there will always be success and failure thriving side by side. This is necessary to bring the game to a higher level. But amidst it all, the player must not be distracted but remain focus on his dreams and turn them to reality! In the main, he is answerable to himself.
I tend to agree with Loh's comments. There is only so much a coach can do. At the end of the day, it is the player who would be playing and facing the opponent. The player would have been prepared in training - physically, mentally & tactically by the coach. Having a personal coach is a good idea looking at what the other powerhouse are doing. Anyway, the player themselves must have the burning desire to excel and to become the champion expected. If the player is not good or champion material then he/she must leave. This can be identified either by the coach or the player himself if he/she is honest about it. The BAM has been in shambles with the same head all this years. So a revamp is overdue here. We have many head coaches; big names if I may add so I don't think its the coach fault although all fingers will point at him as the scapegoat. A proper roadmap to identify and nurture potential players during their school days must be there. Proper training and not to mention badminton clubs supported by the BAM to identify the late bloomers should be there also. Really, I don't see this at all. Year in year out we only depend on the few players we have. There is no clear strategy to groom new players for replacement and backup. Just my 2 cents comments.
