MD final conspiracy theories...

Discussion in 'World Championships 2005' started by the_way, Aug 23, 2005.

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  1. Badmincraze

    Badmincraze Regular Member

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    Hahaha... wat an entertaining incident !!!
    S4MadMan - i salute ur sense of humour!!! :D
     
  2. fanatico

    fanatico Regular Member

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    you should keep this to yourself!

    just like how i kept it to myself!
     
  3. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I am trying my best not to blast at this post at this moment :mad: You already metioned, "I never watch their match". Then, how u draw the conclusion about "whatever theory"??? :confused:

    In my previous post, I already metioned, it's not fair to judge the athletes' 1 time performance base on "history", "ranking", "xxx theory", "promotion", etc. If all the results could be pre-calculated with some hard written formula, then, why even bother compete? Just use the computer load all the data, and simulate.

    If "higher ranking" gurantee a victory, 1st, we can say Taufik get a "theory" behind him to beat LD. Xie got the same to defeat Zhang. IBF might sent some hitman to beat up UK XD pair, so, they have to withdraw on day 1 due to injury, etc...

    Come on, give me a god damn break!!! :mad: If u really believe the theory occurs every single time, why even bother to participate in this sport? Or, all sports in general??? Every yr, almost every very often, there's "black horse" come out and take the title, so, all "theory"??? :eek:
     
    #23 LazyBuddy, Aug 23, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2005
  4. wood_22_chuck

    wood_22_chuck Regular Member

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    bwahahahhahaha ... LB ... it's good that you posted up, just to give voice to the other silent readers of the forum. Posters should realize that people actually read, and good posts reflect thought processes, and personalities. The same with bad ones :)

    -dave
     
  5. the_way

    the_way Regular Member

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    Lock and delete this thread??? Sounds ridiculous....

    the discussion i want to bring out is for the future of the sport...

    I seriously do not want IBF to damage this sport further after the 7 points system problem.

    I am a great badminton fan and also a player......
     
  6. ironchef

    ironchef Regular Member

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    that is the most ridiculous theory i've ever heard. I watched every match they played personally, and there was no way that there was any conspiracy. not only is it ridiculous, i'd say it's one of the most disrespectful things i've ever heard. tony and howard are my teammates, and to see how hard they've worked, especially howard over the last few months, and then have someone just come and say, "oh they won because everyone was SUPPOSED to lose to them because of a conspiracy theory". You can't deny the expressions on Tony and Howard's faces each time they won, and the expressions on the faces of all the players that lost. They couldn't believe they lost. Look at Choong Tan Fook and Chew Choon Eng. Eng was so nervous and rattled, and Fook looked like he was about to die. How is that PLANNED out? If you knew you were supposed to lose, then that is some of the best acting in the world, by the #8,#4,#2, and #1 seeds. And how do you FAKE the joy and tears and emotions on Howard's face? How do you fake being so pumped up that the umpire has to give you a warning 3 separate matches? I think your theory is flat out impossible, and disrespectful. Give credit where it is due. Hardwork, determination, and home court advantage.
     
    #26 ironchef, Aug 23, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2005
  7. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    Ignoring the silly conspiracy theory..

    You can learn a few things from the worlds...

    Winning on the circuit is not the same thing as winning at the worlds or olympics. Taufik would come pretty low on average ranking in last three years if you ignore Athens / worlds yet he won both. Some players up their game some players falter.

    If you've never played in a hall with a lot of drift and several thousand screaming fans you can't really blame the players for errors.

    Noone is unbeatable. Form is temporary. Favourite don't always win. If you want a sure bet then put your money on Federer to win Wimbledon a few more times, not on Lin Dan or Gade

    China can't fix matches if they don't get to meet in the draw:)

    The things I've talked about above ..pressure, drift, venue, all give "underdogs" a better chance in matches and once it gets tight anything can happen.
     
  8. w3wmfhe

    w3wmfhe Regular Member

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    if u went to last year's US open ..to see howard play ..compare with the way he was playing during the worldchamp....howard improve a lot on his defence
    u r just saying that all those higher pair didn't attack howard as much as tony
    well..tony is the one doing most of the job...lots of time he was on howard side to help howard ..i was there on tues 2 the final ....tony covering more than 60-70% of the court...most of the time it is like u can see a player against two on the other side...plus tony is so good ..and quick in the front ..to make opp left up the birddie...thoughtout the tournament..i hvn't see anyone who can outplay tony at the net......also i think homecourt plus support from thousands ppl is also big factor.....
     
  9. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    concur with this..the only plausible way to prove that their win is not part of any "conspiracy" is to see how far they'll do as the same pair in the upcoming tourneys.
    But then again, even if they don't go as far as what they've done in Anaheim in their subsequent tourneys after this, at least they've put a dent in the U.S. market for badminton, esp. in terms of starting to get major sponsors etc.. Esp. if they can get on the David Letterman and Jay Leno show or even the ESPN(which i'm sure they'll be on there since ESPN2 will air the games next month) or Fox Sports show "The Best D*** Sports Show Period". Once they can get some ad/tv/radio/any kind of commercial exposure, then maybe it'll start moving.

    BTW, i read/heard somewhere that IBF will have somekind of a 2* or 3* tournament somewhere in the U.S. again?? most likely in the East Coast??..

     
    #29 ctjcad, Aug 23, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2005
  10. xflubb

    xflubb Regular Member

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    i agree that a conspiracy is unlikely. basically most of the points for either views have been covered and its pretty obvious which side is more ludicrous.
     
  11. rudytjip

    rudytjip Regular Member

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    There is NO Conspiracy

    Hi folks,
    I was at the WC05 everyday last week and saw every stroke of every match that Tony & Howard played in. "the_way" is completely wrong when he wrote that the whole thing was fixed. Here's why:

    1) The matches were too closely and too competitively played. For example, if a boxer wants to throw a fight, he would make sure he gets KO'd and not fight vigorously to the end and leave it to the judges' decision.
    On TV maybe the Tony/Howard matches didn't look intense, but upclose I can see with my own eyes that they were all hard-fought and very very close. All the misses were too close (hitting the lip of the net, missing the lines by fractions of inches, etc.). You can't fake mistakes that closely.

    2) Would the Indonesian/Chinese/Malaysian, etc. governments who spend gobs of money on their own players allow a fix to help the USA? I don't think so!

    3) Would players who've spent all their lives training, sacrificing personal lives to be champion throw away their opportunity? Especially when winning a world championship could mean lifetime pensions, houses, and other bonuses?

    4) The disappointment in the faces of the players who lost to Tony/Howard were real! They all had looks of anguish and utter disbelief that they've lost to the US team. I speak Indonesian and I could hear the things that Luluk/Alven and Candra/Sigit were saying to each other during the matches. Believe me, they weren't saying "hit it out next time" or "serve into the net!"

    My sister sat right behind Bapak Agum (Indonesian sports minister) during the finals on Sunday. He and his wife were the couple that all the Indonesian players went to after their matches. When Candra Wijaya went to them, he was almost in tears while profusely apologizing for not winning the gold medal for Indonesia. This wouldn't happen if the whole thing were fixed.

    5) I was hanging out with many of the Indonesian players throughout the week and was able to chat with them. After the finals, I was chatting with Sonny Dwi Kuncoro and Luluk Hadiyanto, and they were talking about Tony. Sonny said that he thought before that Tony might go back and play for Indonesia, but not now since he was able to win a world championship even playing for the US. Luluk commented that the US audience support for Tony was incredible and it got to him and Alven. Talking about the semifinal match he played against the US, Luluk said because of the audience cheers Tony became a superman and just wouldn't die ... getting everything back even after he and Alven kept smashing and smashing. He said it with such candor and amazed disbelief, that I know for sure that he didn't fake it and lost the match on purpose.

    These are just some of my personal observations that I believe contradict the_way's assertion of conspiracy.

    BTW, for those badminton fans in the US, ESPN2 has scheduled 3 hours highlights for September 12 from 3pm ET to 6pm ET. Their schedule only listed doubles coverage, which means there won't be any men's single matches being shown. That's odd! I want to see a replay of the Taufik-Ponsana, Taufik-Jonassen, and Lin Dan-Peter Gade matches again! They were awesome!
     
  12. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I really hope u r a true fan for badminton.

    However, the idea u brought out is nowhere near "bring out the future of the sport". Think this way, once a dominator (i.e. CHN) took title, certain ppl jumps out say, "team strategy". Once a underdog (i.e. US) won, u says "conspiracy theory". If i am a pro, I will be soooooo nervous even before the competition, as, "what should I do?" "what kinda label I am going to be put on this time"

    Come on, IBF introduce their new rulez (work or not) at least, after some calculation/survey/vote, etc. You come out with ur theory base on what??? On "oh, even though I did not watch them play, but I think???" :eek: :mad:

    Excuse me if any of my wording is kinda harsh. I am NOT mad because ur point of view. I am very MAD because u just sit in ur house, w/o any hard fact proof, and blah blah blah... and try to take away credits from others. :(
     
    #32 LazyBuddy, Aug 23, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2005
  13. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Thanks for the info...

    9/12, man, monday... Guess either I need to take a day off, or have to fix my VCR in a hurry... :(
     
  14. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    I really doubt ESPN2 will show any other matches(MS,WS,WD or XD) other than the U.S. MD Final match. In a way, it *seemed* like all of this is already "pre-planned". Imagine if the U.S.(Tony and Howard) lost in the Finals, would ESPN2 still be showing the highlights??And it's scheduled to show exclusively 3 hours of the WC MD Finals+commercials in between of course!!!...
    Shouldn't they be showing other events as well??..

     
    #34 ctjcad, Aug 23, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2005
  15. OTFK

    OTFK Regular Member

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    I think Taufik-Ponsana match was on court #5 so there was no camera coverage. However, the other 2 matches were in Court #1 (I think). Han probably will have the DVD.
     
  16. blindspots

    blindspots Regular Member

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    And the winner is....

    Conspiracy:eek:

    I saw all match against ranked #1,#4,#2 Park level seating. Coming from a Los Angeles resident, I say the losing team must have been mesmerized by the glamour and glitz of Hollywood for them to throw the game and start acting as if they are in a movie shoot. Bravo! Eriksen/Hansen. Bravo! Hadiyanto/Alven. Bravo! Candra/Sigit. You all deserve an Oscar award. As for the rest... the staff, the coaches, the trainers, the fans, you all deserve best supporting. This is tinseltown and THIS IS MY HOUSE!
     
  17. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i think it is ok to bring out the conspiracy theory. in fact, i already guessed that something like this will be brought up in BC sooner or later. whenever something that feels implausible happens, it is not unreasonable for someone to wonder if something fishy is going on.

    however, we must also understand that, no matter which side you are on, it is impossible to prove or disprove anything, we can bring out our views, our analysis, but at the end of the day, we can never be sure what is the truth. and in fact, even if we know the truth, it may not be as black and white as yes or no.

    at this point, i will continue to let discussions go on. but as usual, all participants must discuss in a civilized and educated manner. if the discussion started turning sour and out of control, we will lock and ban this topic.
     
  18. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    Support your decision, 200%. Poster's should be allowed to post their opinions as long as they are civilized - whether we agree with them or not.
     
  19. madbad

    madbad Regular Member

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    I'm quite amused at the heated reaction this post has generated. I think most people are taking this WAAAAAY more seriously than it needs to be taken. C'mon people, conspiracy theories have existed since god knows when. Why get all riled up about it. the_way's allowed his point of view. In my opinion he did it in a non-offensive way (at least to me). In fact I had a good chuckle over it. While most of the responses have been civilized and well thought out, those who just blurt out emotionally SHOULD have their post/reply removed. Even better, if you think the_way's just seeking reaction, don't respond to the post. But as far as I'm concerned, he's allowed his say and should not be censored.

    (PS BTW, I DO NOT believe in his theory. Tony/Howard deserved their victory)
     
  20. Jumpalot

    Jumpalot Regular Member

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    I saw every single game Tony and Howard played in WC. Here is just a few comments cause I could probably write a few pages pointing out how your theory is flawed.

    1. Despite all your follow up efforts stating how badminton should not be played to 7pts and how your commenting how great certain player performed such as Lindan and xie xingfang, and that you are actually a great fan of badminton and you are also a player, have you noticed everyone just ignor them after your initial post? Your post is probably seen as one of very little thought and probably all emotion while only pointing out the surface and the obvious but not looking at all the factors why these good teams lost to Tony and Howard. In addition, the way you posted it you werent proposing there is a possibility of a conspiracy. You wrote it as if you have "PROOF" But so far you continue to say what you think might appear as "possible" fixing the game along with what 2 Japanese players opinion which they only felt something might be wrong and wondering why the Indos smashed at Tony more. Is that all you have as proof? By the way, its incredibly irresponsible to even mention their names this way and imply they support your theory and make it look as if they have come out openly and accuse IBF of fixing the 2005 WC in the same way you did? I am sure they appreciate your post.

    2. I like the way you defended other matches are not really upsets since the winning team are also top ranked. Well I consider higher seeds losing to lower seeded players as upsets but thats not important. But lets look at your logic. Its ok for lower seeded team to beat the Olympic gold medal winners such as zhang jun and gao ling and its ok for #3 WS from China to lose the first round. And its probablyl ok for 19 year girl from Taiwan who just started playing World Class badminton tournaments to reach 6* WC Semi-finals and almost beating #1 seed in the world ( she won first game 11-2). But its not ok and it's a major game fixing when the fast rising team from USA (already ranked #13 in the world and is still climbing) to beat these teams at HOME in USA ? Are you forgetting that one of the player is Tony Gunawan? He is the Olympic gold medalist and have won numerous world class titles and is legendary for controlling the front and practically dominated his opponent almost every single match that he is ever played in. Match after match he makes his partner look like super stars including Howard. And lets not overlook Howard, he has played in the Olympics as well as many high level tournaments recently. He also has a chance to train with Tony and Halim everyday for quite a while now so is it that hard to believe he is now a World Class badminton player and fully capable of defending the Indos? Does any team have to be superior defensively to beat the Indos? Why couldnt an Offensive team beat the Indos ? So are you saying it's not OK USA won and the game must be fixed ?

    3. Lets look it potentially what has to be done to fix a team all the way from 1st round to finals. IBF would have to assign someone to negotiate the deal with OH SAY 4+ countries that are super powers in badminton. What are the odds of any of these countries would go along with this incredibly crappy deal of trying to make USA a super power in badminton as well ? Where does it stop for the fixing? Maybe next time it's WS? or MS? Do you think the INDOS are HAPPY or SATISFIED just to TIE with China in the gold medal count in WC at 2 each? Dont you think INDO would like to show once again they are a super power OVER CHINA ?? !!!!!!!!!!!!!! So with that said, do you think any high ranking IBF official ( which I believe there should tons of politics and power struggle within IBF) would any risk their job / position to initiate discussing fixing 05 WC with China / Indo / Denmark / ........? I mean even if one country agrees, what are the odds of getting all the country to agree?


    Once again, its always easy to point the finger at someone like IBF eventhough half the time I dont believe they are promoting badminton the right way. But before you do that, think about who you are hurting in the process and I strongly feel you owe Tony and Howard an apology for not believing in them and they obviously have absolutely NOTHING to be ashamed of as you are trying to do to their reputation.
     
    #40 Jumpalot, Aug 23, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2005
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