Malaysian spoilt brats !!!

Discussion in 'Singapore / Indonesia / Malaysia Open 2003' started by wl2172, Aug 21, 2003.

  1. wl2172

    wl2172 Regular Member

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    Malaysian men are a disgrace in this year's Singapore open. Our performance have exposed how weak we are in so many areas compared to the other badminton superpowers. In fact, if we keep this up, we will enter the dark ages again like in the late 70's - earlt 80's.

    Choong Tan Fook, Lee Wan Wah(and a lot of the other national players) have led sheltered, secured and pampered lives for as long as I can remember. The status these players get from the country is unbelievable. Before, during the golden days of Punch Gunalan, Eddy Choong, Ng Boon Bee, Tan Yee Khan..., monetary rewards and such were seldom mentioned, they even had to foot a lot of their own bills. Yet, they dominated the badminton scene for such a long time, winning numerous Thomas cups, All England titles... the list is endless. True, a lot of people will argue that the level of competition was not so keen then, but that is not what I am getting at. It is the discipline and the attitude those players exhibited that defined Malaysia's golden era. When they represented the country, they looked to the flag each time they won a match, not the bank account. When they won a tournament, the throphy is the first thing they grasp, not the money cheque. We have fallen to a new low with the spoilt bunch that we have now(maybe except Choong Hann), and why we should consider ourselves a badminton superpower still eludes me because frankly speaking, we are not.

    Tomorrow's match (and the following matches if they survive) for Choong and Lee is pay back time for all the disappointment and heartbreak the fans have suffered for such a long time now. Show us why we should allow you to continue having such wonderful lifestyles when the rest of us struggle everyday just to earn a living. Prove me wrong by going out there with the aim to win, and not just to think about a lame excuse when you are 14-3 down because we are sick and tired of your excuses. As for the rest of them, the bus journey home should not be such a comfortable one.
     
  2. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    Except Choon Hann, correct. He is probably the only one in the national stables who is without any razz matazz and still delivers the goods.

    My dad used to talk about this last time when Nusa Mahsuri and Wira Tangkis (remember them?) were formed as a 'protest' to the Badminton Association of Malaysia, saying that this is no good as players would become mercenaries. National glory takes second place, prize money becomes the measure of success.

    This 'professionalism', my dad said, is likely to create more trouble than good. It is not that we don't have the talents to do it, the problem here is the mentality. A player doing it for the country will certainly have a different mentality than those who does it for personal glory.

    "Well, you will only disappoint yourself if you fail".
    compared to
    "You will disappoint the whole country if you fail".

    My dad is a fan of the Chinese disciplinary regime of training and coaching which emphasizes a lot on commitment and determination, in which is why I think the Chinese are on their way back now to the pinnacle of badminton. Their boarding facilities and infrastructure may not be on par with that of Malaysia (BJSS, BAM), but they produce the goods.

    What gives?

    History had spoken of the Malaysian attitude to badminton as rebellious and spoilt. My father once told me about a famous youth coach from China (I think the name is Fang KaiXiang or something) who came to Malaysia at one time, coached our kids then left because he felt that there's too much compaint from the management and the players.

    (I last heard that Indonesia snapped him up. I wonder what happened to him now?)

    Remember Yang Yang and Park JB? Same problem. You can bring the very best to the country to train the players, but if there's too much complaints or 'player power' (as well as meddling from the management) we will be wasting money.

    The Deputy PM once said, "Malaysia is a country with first class facilities and infrastructure, but third world county mentality".

    And I think he's right.
     
  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    lol, the same could be said of England! Every country has its high and lows.

    If people are spoiled, does it have something to do with their upbringing as a youth. Does that say something about lifestyle as a youth in Malaysia and applicable to all, not just a select few who play badminton?


    And in the golden days of M'sian badminton, there were no chinese playing. Just imagine the rankings if there were no players from China today.....
     
  4. rejang

    rejang Regular Member

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    I believed a lot rests on the attitude and menatlity of both players and coaches.

    In the Chinese camps, the players advised each other and discussed the various other (countries') players' strengths and weaknesses. They share information and experiences. Xia XuanZe was at the courtside, acting as "coach" in the match bet Bao & Wong yesterday and was seen giving advises to Bao in between matches. I will not be surprised if they have regular sessions to discuss the others as well as the players in their own team's games.
    On top of that, Chinese players seems to be continuously looking for improvements in their games apart from just winning the current matche or tournaments. eg. Gao/Chen (mixed doubles) convincingly beat their opponents yesterday but after the match, both of them sat with their coach (who was on the courtside during the match) and was animately discussing the match that just completed despite wiping out their opponents. This is the sort of commitment and attitude needed to improve. Have you ever seen any M'sian players/coaches doing that???
     
  5. rejang

    rejang Regular Member

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    On a similar vein, M'sians living overseas who are avid badminton fans herad of this new ntional champion, Yeoh Kay Bin and were really looking forward to see his play. We must say, if this is the sort of talent who can capture the national title, M'sia really has no hope as a force in future badminton. What we saw was a real amateurist display. We left shaking our heads.

    On the other hand, another unknown, Lee Chong Wei showed great mantle to take the fight to Lee Hyun Il and nearly upsets him. The guy has a good aary of strokes and accuracy, packing some power as well. He is one to watch and hopefully, recognised as such by BAM and given the necessary exposure. Exposure is definitely something this guy will need.
     
  6. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    I always believe that these are characteristics of KIASu behaviour,

    what cantonese call' Chi ki ku chi ki".

    I think this behaviour of being selfish individuals are relics of a colonial past

    still very persistent in places like Msia, Hk, Singapore, India and Africa.

    I don't blame the Europeans , they needed to keep their colonial subjects deeply

    divided in order to control them,even some governments in some countries use the

    same strategy,the Europeans themselves being very individualistic at least are

    prudent enough to form a fortess called European Union.

    What we really need is to cultivate a sense of identity and loyalty to a group or sth

    ie. safety in numbers but how can one do that if one's government discourages you

    from sticking together or even cursing one's ancestors?
     
  7. rejang

    rejang Regular Member

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    HI BBN,
    With due respect, I do not follow the relevance of your drift, apart from the selfish bit. Furthermore, I am not sure this is the relevant forum for such thoughts.
     
  8. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Oh it is relevant , and is supportive of some of your comments.

    It is a question why certain people can work better as teams

    as opposed to individuals and all boils down to upbringing, education,

    environmenmt etc.

    People in China need to be very cohesive and united as people in say Japan or

    Europe as they are still poor, like someone said First class facilities and third world

    mentality.I'm sure whether something is relevant or not is fairly subjective.
     
  9. yowkee

    yowkee Regular Member

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    As far as I could remember, the new national champion should be Lee Chong Wei, not Yeoh Kay Bin.
     
  10. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Dear Malaysian Friends

    Do not let your 'star' players not doing too well in the S'pore Open upset you too much. As Cheung has said, there are always ups and downs.

    I do share in the disappointment that so few M'sian men players (only your men's doubles) get into the QF Round when there are supposed to be quite a good number of talented and proven players, who have done reasonably well in the All England and WC recently. Maybe this "crisis" situation is a timely wakeup call to both the players and officials alike that they have a great deal more to do to reach the top.

    Many countries would like to have such an impressive badminton "infrastructure" that Malaysia has for its talented young. But as some of you have emphasized, some players have their priorities wrong. Fame and glory, followed by wealth, will certainly be available to the world beaters but, first, they must prove themselves as worthy world champions.

    Indeed, it is rather difficult to emulate the qualities of the older generation champions who virtually had to pay for their own passages to the Final. Full commitment and passion for the game was all they know of despite the numerous hurdles they had to endure. If only our present young players have these qualities or some of them!

    All the more so, as many other countries are catching up or doing their best to catch up on the top badminton nations. Their target: the elusive Olympic gold.
     
  11. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Thank you Loh, luckily you didn't take a swipe at me for

    using the phrase Kiasu.In case you are wondering I was only quoting Lee Kuan Yew,

    and believe me, it is not only confined to Singapore!

    Neither am I degrading anybody else, I'm just comparing values and culture.
     
  12. wl2172

    wl2172 Regular Member

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    Thank you fro your comforting words Loh, very much appreciated.

    However, the fact still remains that the current set of players in Malaysia are not getting any younger, and the next genration of players do not have very much big match experience. Compared to players like Taufik or Sony Dwi Kuncoro, they are still far behind.

    Coming back to the attitude thing, I am saying that the players always need to reevaluate the reason why they are there in the first place. Monetary rewards and iconic status is a double edged sword. On one hand it can propel you to greater heights, on the other it can slice you in half. Malaysian players need to adapt a certain amount of professionalism, which is currently missing. A little bit of achievement affects them easily, and this has got to change. The reason why I singled out Wong Choong Hann is because he always re-evaluates himself and ask himself what he did wrong this time. He will then go away and analyse the problem with his coach so that he will be better prepared next time. His humble attitute and down to earth approach in life is a maturity that is lacking in most other national players. Why do you need your coach to throw you out of the house before you wake up? Why is it that when your coach gets the sack because of your incompetence then only you wake up? Choong and Lee( and the others ) need to start taking responsibilities for their own actions from now on, and realise that their destiny lies in their own hands, not in the fans, or coaches or stupid politicians!!!
     
  13. fan

    fan Regular Member

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    Hopefully, because the Choong/LEE MD advanced to the semi (from now on, who knows, anything can happen), the road home will not be as bumpy.

    Look at the bright side, Indonesia Open is right around the corner, the Malaysian team got another chance to save their pride.
     
  14. wl2172

    wl2172 Regular Member

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    Lets wait and see

    I am not rushing to put much hope on Choong and Lee just yet, especially if they will be meeting the world champs.

    However, I must say that their convincing win over Eng Hian/Flandy is rather reassuring. It is nice to see them performing again, as they were once one of the most feared pairings in the world. However, they have a funny habit of falling apart when you least expect them to. When you start seeing Choong shaking and scratching his head more and more often, that is a bad sign. Suddenly, shots will start flying into the net or going out at an alarming rate, this will be followed by more head scratching and shaking. Before you know it, everything is all over.

    As I mentioned earlier, this could be the last chance for them to redeem themselves, and also to save their flailing careers. They have to believe in themselves and when they get on court, nothing should matter more than playing to the best of their ability. It is an honour to play for your country and when you don national colours, you carry the hope of the nation and your fans.
     
  15. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    it has always been my impression that Malaysia, including the Malaysia press, fans, and official are too spoiling yet at the same time, too critical to their players.

    if the players ever win anything, they will be rewarded with money, cars, land, fame. eg. look at the amount of attention Hafiz got just winning the AE.

    however, if they fail to perform as expected, we will see the press and fans criticizing them, calling them disappointment and spoiled, etc, etc.

    to me, this sounds like parents who buys all the best toys for their kids, pamper then when they get a 95% grade, but when they drop to 75% once, they will be punished and beaten and scolded, and then locked into the storage room with no dinner for a day.

    imho, that may be a bit too extreme. i don't see such spoil-age and criticism of the players in other countries.

    like the Chinese, if they win, they are happy and they would celebrate, but the authority hardly ever over-reward them and they do understand that that's their job to win and they have acheived their job. if they lose, they get sad, but understands that that is part of the job also and they just have to go home and work on it. surely the country and fans will be disappointed, but they never complain and criticize, but instead they put their faith on their players to go home and work on their game again.

    am i sensing it wrong? i believe Malaysians are very passionate fan of badminton, but perhaps they are reacting too much for their players?
     
  16. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    ermm, is this discussion in the correct forum. Kwun has a nice summing up. Bbn, I know exactly what you mean in the 'kiasu' post. Perhaps one of the factors is also lack political maturity as well.
     
  17. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Maturity, thats the word.

    I think its better not to exposel dirty linen in public, otherwise the

    person quoting as well as victim become laughing stocks, unable to defend

    themselves.Maybe criticism of personalities ought not be so direct,its more like

    character assasination, in some places its libel and slander.

    Just look at how they discuss British badminton in baddres, matured, analytical etc,

    not judge, jury and executioner. Maybe confine to abilities of players not attitudes,

    Compare that to Msian postings in Worldbadminton.net, I think some have migrated

    here.

    Malays have a saying, "Splash water in a basin and water will fly in your face".

    Not critical of all W1272, Wilfred etc can be quite constructive but better to look

    after our "Face" and image, otherwise we'll be laughed at internationally.
     
  18. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i'd like to clarify, and apologize if i offended someone from my previous post, that i wasn't finger pointing at anybody. i was refering to my sense of a trend in the Malaysian public opinion as a whole.

    perhaps we are getting into too sensitive a topic and we are all steping on slippery stones here.. :(
     
  19. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Not that I know of Kwun.

    I think people should not be too blunt or candid,

    it's not for bad reasions that some people are

    identified as " heong ha loh" or "Ah Ngau", or "Ah Chan "to

    name a few. We have a lot of work to do.
     
  20. wl2172

    wl2172 Regular Member

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    Apologise to all for being too candid and blunt on my side. It is not my intention to speak ill of my own countrymen. On the contrary, it is probably because I care too much.

    More constructive criticisms from me next time, or I'll keep mum.
     

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