If there is match-fixing, it can never be proven unless someone involved in the match fix owns up. It's like going to the doctor and say you have a terrible headache or a bad case of diarrhoea (sp?) to get leave from work. No one can say you are lying except for yourself.
were u there in person that witnessed lyb telling their players to fix there match? if not, r u like vip_m who has clairvoyant ability? u should also apply for sainthood too Wow, so many blessed ones residing here in BF. We are so blessed.
Hmmm.... the last I read in BC, you(and some LD/China fans) also make a lot of noise/question loads of stuff abt LCW, KKK lah, so you cant complain when others reply back. Same2 lor.
<yawn>Meanwhile, the Msian football players(2008) who were convicted of "match fixing" must be nicely enjoying their free food & accomodation in jail. And the lawn bowling official (2009 case) who ordered 2 players to lose vs team mate also having nice time. Just replace "official" with "Msia badminton coach",preferably with some tape recording & other witnesses, super big case already. In capitalist society, somewhere along the line, there'll be someone who'll be the whistle blower.
let me give u a simple example of your logic. Player A is a beginner player who always has been using cheapo/fake rackets. One day, he came in to play with a brand new NS9900 racket. U say, wow, it can't be real, he can't afford it, plus that racket doesn't suits him at all. He never owned an expensive racket before. U checked it and its' real. So u concluded that he must of stole it or stole money to buy it. That's what u saw limsy, only the result, and u labled him guilty of theft or some of criminal act.
If you ever read all my posts, I will say over 95% of the time I talked about LCW or Koo are on the positive side. On the other hand, I was one of the first group to comment on LD's racket throwing incident, and I am one of the 1st few said that LD indeed own an apology. And, from when I am a LD fan? More than once in the public, I said I do think he has superior skill, but I do not like his personality. If you can trace back to my quotes, my favorite MS player is XXZ, and PG as a closer 2nd. My favorite WS player is Susi and GZC. Please do not just partially quote my comments.
Why is there a discussion about this? 1. Match fixing exists but it cant be stopped 2. Stop complaining and start beating the Chinese players so they dont play each other all the time 3. For China, badminton is a chess game for world domination and players are just pawns, so having a strategy to improve your chances of winning is understandable
I think anyone who has reasoning abilities above a 14 year old understands why match fixing hurts a sport. Your statements concerning China and the IOC are irrelevant to the argument at hand. I am not denying the importance of China as a part of the global badminton community, but that does not mean I, or any other real badminton fan, should condone some of the things they do. Under those circumstances, it would be perfectly reasonable to suspect something like that, especially if that individual has had a past record of doing so. Based on those suspicions, an investigation would take place to search for evidence, and if evidence is found, he would be guilty. You (and a few others) are alleging that we want to penalize the Chinese team based on recent behavior, but that's not the point we are trying to make. It is a given that there needs to be evidence in order to convict an individual or a team of match fixing, and then to penalize that team or individual. And there are certainly ways to find out whether match fixing has occurred--look at the 2006 Italian Series A football scandal. Juventus FC did not get relegated to Series B for no reason. If this were true, nobody could ever be convicted of anything in court. 1. Match fixing exists, but yes it can be stopped; it requires some effort on the part of everyone, but how rare match fixing occurs in major sport leagues around the world is a testament to the fact that it can certainly be prevented. 2. I think a more effective method is to start complaining more so that the BWF will take action against match fixing. 3. Yes, having a strategy to improve your chances of winning is understandable. However, having a strategy that undermines the integrity of the sport is inexcusable.
Well, maybe u do not call such cases as "match fixing". In any major league sports, once playoff seedings are locked, teams tend to rest all stars, and play the benches. As a result, the opponents usually receive an easy W. So, any other teams can accuse such as "match fixing", as they either intentionally, or un-intentionally effected the outcome of playoff seedings or berth. Did anyone accuse such teams to "take it easy" on their opponents, which result the 3rd party team lose the seeding or berth? Well, guess not. Another good example is "playoff no hope" team, tend to tank the games, to increase its chance to lue higher lottery picks. Of course, you can say it's fishy fishy, as it's another type of "match fixing" (fix to lose)... However, it's almost impossible to officially give any punishment.
1. You are making a broad statement. Team spirit and cooperation are some of the noble and endeared qualities for the mainland chineses. I believe Japan culture also embrace team spirit highly. Only the western culture pushes individuality as supreme. Therefore, u should go ask some 14 years kids IN CHINA before making such broad generalized statement. 2. Then, a investigation should be conducted with a decisive finding before condeming the alleged party. In a court of law, past records are only use as character profiling, it is not enough to convict the alleged party without a shred of evidence. 3. U r mixing with match fixing cases from international sports (ex. baseball, soccer,etc) to badminton. However, there are some big differences. First, china alleged badminton fixings do not involve monetary gain or betting. Neither LYB or his players betted or made money from their game plan. If u look at most of the alleged fixings involved olympic game and WC events, these have no $$ prizes. Secondly, the alleged china fixings involved their OWN team/players where as in soccer and baseball fixing scandals, they involved betting of player/team/country of different origin. I think this is a HUGE difference. So, don't smear the dark side of other sport fixing to alleged china vs china fixing that involved no betting or exchange of money. Like what lazybuddy said, it is similar to a soccer team resting their best players in early rounds so to minimize injury to them before the big matches.
badminton is a beautiful game but not yet an international mainstream sport so its rules are not yet fully scrutinized by the mass audience until recently as it is getting popular. No sports have perfect rules but highly popular sports like golf, basketball, baseball, soccer have had their rules modified enough such that their rules much more efficient(ie, less flaws or loop holes) than badminton. In badminton, we still have grey area in line judging, some rules can be more refined, air draft affecting player's accuracy, and what have you. To make the game better, we should refine the other weakness in the rule first before attacking the flaws of potential match fixing which is the hardest to 'fix' and it has minimal impact to the end result anyway. to be cont.
I am way too relax now. I try not to get into heated debate here. Whatever I can say, is already said. It's down to others choose to listen or not.
i am very relaxed. I'm slowly trotting to the home base 'waving my left hand' and drinking bubble tea from my right hand Demerol is reserved for the complainers I suggest extra dosage for them as they seem to be in pain alot given that china is winning alot
LazyBuddy: I do not think the examples you posted are analogous to what is happening. I will explain more on this below. cooler: You should bear in mind that badminton is an individual sport, not a team sport. Obviously, if it were a team sport, or the competition were based in a team format, then I would have no complaint at all, because the unit is the team. However, in badminton competitions, the winner is an individual. Here's why it makes a difference: Lin Dan has won four All-England titles. Now let us suppose he could have won another one if not for the interference of the coaches. Fifty years from now, some player X is a fast and rising star and is approaching Lin Dan's domination of the MS field. But when Lin Dan is compared to player X, he will have one fewer AE title than he should have had. Fifty years from now, nobody will remember what he did not win, but only what he has won. The point is this: you are taking away from the athletic achievements of those athletes when you tell them to take it easy in important matches (Aside: this is why it is not analogous to having a team that didn't make the playoffs tank games at the end of the season; I would not call those matches to have been fixed.) Another, perhaps more poignant, example is Zhou Mi and the 2004 Olympics. The Chinese team essentially took away her chance of winning an Olympics--a once-in-four-year tournament. Now, she probably will never win an Olympic title. For any athlete who was told that, they would probably start to question whether their careers have a point. The idea of sports in general is to provide a grounds for fair competition, and when coaches interfere with fair competition and diminish the athletic accomplishments of players who have put their life into the sport, you have to wonder whether there is a point in becoming a professional player in the first place. Match fixing is hurtful to any sport because it is against the spirit of sports, and to be any kind of professional athlete, you definitely have to believe in that spirit. That is why match fixing is condemned from an athletics point of view. From the audience's point of view, I know you keep insisting that it has minimal impact. My experience with badminton fans tells me otherwise. Li Yongbo has already alienated many, many Chinese badminton fans from what he has done (me being one myself--I'm not sure why you assumed I am not Chinese; after all, we do represent the largest proportion of the world population). Now, consider how fans of badminton from other countries think of the Chinese team. And most importantly, think of how outsiders would view the team and the sport. Frankly, if Li Yongbo really wanted to persist in his ways, he should do it more discretely rather than telling the media about it.
why give me asumption? we suspect match fixing long time ago,and zhou mi statement is just to comfirm ours suspectation. that is proof. anyway,if u didnt get my point,mean my english is not good enough to let u understand. case close for that. the same word i want to say:we didnt do bad thing because it is bad,and not because we will be punished. guide urself by moral and not law,we arent animal nor uncivilised ancient human. many acknowledge match fixing is incorrect and hurting the sport,but some doesnt. and i am one of those that cant accept match fixing. everyone guideline is different,one can accept robbing/stealing is a way to earn money and others cant. i wont persuade anyone to follow my guideline,this is just a wasting time act.
just have a look in badzine website i am surprise that there is someone that dont know about this incident in bc
