Lin Dan vs. Ronald Susilo

Discussion in 'Olympics ATHENS 2004' started by SteveStanley, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Since LinDan does it every time, it's part of his style.
    If a person has a totally impassive face, they get criticised for being impassive.

    The trick is the psychological game. A game is not only about skill. It is about how you use that skill. Same with academic exams, interviews, debates etc. Sports psychologists recognise it as tactics:) Sure it is a trick.

    Others use some to great effect.
    Football is a great example - they spit or swear at opponents to invoke a physical reaction. One guy use to grab at the groin area of his opponents (Vinny Jones). Even Ruud VN jumped all over Patrick Viera (I think). Physical confrontation is over the borderline IMO. But before that...:)

    Just on a last note. If a person gets disrupted by such behaviour from his oppponent, I take it as a sign of mental weakness. It happens at all levels of play. The answer is not to cry and say "foul play". The answer is to become mentally tougher. Only the winners get remembered.
     
    #181 Cheung, Aug 16, 2004
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2004
  2. Feng_MP-100

    Feng_MP-100 Regular Member

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    I agree with you, Cheung.:D
     
  3. Phil

    Phil Regular Member

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    What's the problem with refusing to change the shuttle? If the shuttle really is in bad shape, the other player can show the umpire who will decide if it needs changing or not. This is just part of the psychological part of the game.

    IMO, complaining about a player's "tricks," that distract the opponent's concentration is silly. This is the sort of thing that gives badminton its clean-cut, preppy, wussy, polite, only-cheer-between-rallies-and-only-if-the-point-was-"properly"-won appearance as a sport.

    Phil
     
  4. timeless

    timeless Regular Member

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    Congrats to Ronald Susilo and Singapore for a tremendous match!!! :D

    Regarding Lin Dan's court antics and general behaviour, I suppose it's a matter of perspective. If you don't mind players using whatever mind games, tricks, antics, etc., they can to win matches then you won't think Lin Dan is doing anything wrong. However, if you think Lin Dan's court behaviour shows poor sportsmanship then you'll most likely feel what he does to be unfair or cheap. However, if everything Lin Dan or any player does is within the rules of the sport and not illegal, then technically a player is within their right to do whatever they can to win. Of course one could argue that this is the Olympics; the pinnacle of excellence and fair play! LOL

    Personally, I believe that a competitive player can and should do whatever they can to try and beat an opponent, as long as it is all within the legal rules of the sport. It would be naive for a competitive player, especially professionals, not to expect anything less from their opponents as well. Players will all fit somewhere in between the spectrum from model sportsmanship to pushing the limits of the rules. Now most of society is in favour of the squeaky clean champion with great sportsmanship, rather than a champion that employs "sneaky tricks", but life isn't always a fairy tale, and these days "colourful characters" often steal the limelight.

    However, from what I've seen recently, it seems Lin Dan is straddling that border between fair play and cheating a bit too often. I used to think Lin Dan was truly awesome, completely deserving of his nickname "SuperDan". But recently after watching him play in the 2004 Thomas Cup against Peter Gade I reluctantly changed my mind. During that match, he continuously and quite obviously delayed the games on purpose. Isn't that not illegal? He did get continuous verbal warnings for it did he not? He also kept refusing to change the shuttle which I know is his right to do so. However, when Peter Gade refused to change the shuttle, both Peter and the english announcers caught Lin Dan crushing/breaking the shuttles in his hand so that the umpire had to agree that the shuttle should be changed! You could also see on video that Lin Dan was continuously changing the speed of the shuttle by adjusting the feathers without the umpire knowing. I'm quite sure that's illegal. Peter Gade seemed to be quite aware of Lin Dan's "tricks" but the umpire did almost nothing. Although he eventually picked up a yellow card for his delays, I believe the umpire was quite lenient on Lin Dan, if not down right negligent. Now I wasn't there to watch it all live court-side, but if what the announcers and Peter Gade were saying were true, that's going beyond psychological and into the realm of outright cheating. So if Lin Dan was pulling the same garbage at the Olympics, then I believe what goes around finally came around. The better man most certainly won that day. Good job Ronald!
     
  5. Brave_Turtle

    Brave_Turtle Regular Member

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    Man, timeless well said, I wanted to say everything you said word by word :D

    I too use to like Lin Dan but after watching 2004 TC I changed my mind.
     
  6. Feng_MP-100

    Feng_MP-100 Regular Member

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    I don't get it. What's wrong with changing birdies? Even if they were as good as new, why not just change it? They are free anyway... :D I wish I could use a new FREE birdie after just several hits.
     
  7. Phil

    Phil Regular Member

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    The focus here is less on the condition of the actual shuttle, and more on the psychological games. A player may care little about the condition of the shuttle, however when his opponent requests a change, they can oppose this player by denying the request. The purpose of this is to simply put off the other player if nothing more than for the chance that you have to do it. By saying no to the shuttle change request, you are asserting control over your opponent, and that is a valuable psychological advantage, if it works.

    However, crushing the shuttle is definately crossing the line into "wrong."

    Phil
     
  8. rejang

    rejang Regular Member

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    YES!! Timeless had all the facts there.
     
  9. Bresis

    Bresis Regular Member

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    I watched the match between LD and Peter Gade and I certainly didn;t see LD crushing the shuttlecock so that they have to change it. I believe one should not pass judgements without real proof and calling someone a cheat. Although u r entitled to your own opinion. :rolleyes:
     
  10. chinadoll

    chinadoll Regular Member

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    arghhhh......... i cant believe it
    Lin Dan was not playing his 100% usual self... he was too stress i think
    he did too many unforced errors which can be avoided.....
    if he play his normal self like in TC, he sure can win.......
    i'm so disappointed, shocked n sad..........
    anyway he will still be my fave player
     
  11. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    Well he is not the greatest... can't expect him to win all the time.. even Kim/Ra lost in the mixed doubles... sad to hear.
     
  12. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    No one have the divine right to win things anyway, so Lin Dan cannot expect to go through as if he and Olympics were made for each other. I guess the spirit of sports romanticism is still pretty strong where dramas are played out and giants slain.

    As said Kim/Ra - same story. Anyone can win. Anyone can lose.
     
  13. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    oy! be nice.

    ...........
     
  14. gossip_lover

    gossip_lover Regular Member

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    personally..i am really sad that lin dan did not win the game...i had high hopes for him and team china.....even tho he's not my fave player....as to his 'antics'....if he did what u guys said he did....he has taken it a bit too far...i am desperate to watch this game...kim/ra's game....and the eliminated game of zhao tingting....it sucks for not having a lot of badminton here in vancouver...so i will have to buy some vcd's...but they ...the players mentioned above...might not be in it since they are elimnated sooo early...anyways best of luck team china!
     
  15. laurel

    laurel New Member

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  16. nauknip

    nauknip Regular Member

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    Uh-huh, so? :rolleyes:
     
  17. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    Well He is considered a Sporean as he is playing under Spore flag.
     
  18. bluejeff

    bluejeff Regular Member

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    NBC just showed this game for 3 seconds as the commercials for tomorrow's badminton games about a hour ago........don't know if they would actually show this game or not.
     
  19. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    And he is not a direct 'adult' import. He came here as a teenaged student (unfortunately we did not have a Sports School then) and was groomed by Singapore into the giant-killer he now is, with Singapore putting all available and reasonable resources towards his development.

    And he has already decided to become a Singapore Citizen, something an adult has to consider very carefully as it will mean an important change in one's adult life and future.

    Ronald is now about 25 and has an equally talented girl friend, a foreign talent like himself, who has also done Singapore proud in table-tennis and she also qualified for the Olympics. Therefore one can say that Singapore holds a special place in Ronald's heart. We are thrilled by his achievements in the badminton world and are very proud of him. We could only wish him the best at the Olympics and hope he will fight hard to bring back a medal. :) :p :D
     
  20. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    here is a few snippets on Chinese media about Lin Dan's lost.

    LiYB's comments:

    "Lin's lost is not a big surprise, everybody have too high a hope on him. "

    "Lin lost to himself. He thinks he is really 'super Dan'. In fact, he hasn't been paying as much attention in training since the TC."

    "the feeling of not have lost is very good, however, when one do lost is the time when one realize his own deficiencies, this is a price that young people must pay. Lin's lost will create pressure for other teammates, it will also alert others of the same mistake. There is always a good and a bad side, we must understand."

    another anonymous Chinese official says:

    "Young players gets some good results and became too proud of himself. and started to pay less attention on training. you always get what you paid for, one must pay for price for the glory."

    "Before Athens, Lin even prepared an army barrade for his victory salute and rehearsed all the detail of the salute. with such an expectation, it is not uncommon to have lost the match"

    "he is too young, if he learns his lesson, he has a chance again in 4 years. it is a pity to have lost it this time, it is not easy to play in the Olympics."
     

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