China needs Lin Dan in WC. still better to have 2 arrows than only 1
Lin Dan and the 2013 World Championship qualification
- Thread starter AlanY
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Justin L
Regular Member
Arrows ! Good analogy and both capable of hitting the bull's eye. To be honest, in my opinion, even with Lin Dan far from his best, he's still better than any of the CHN 3rd MS be it Du PY, Chen Jin, WZM. And what's the World Championship without Lin Dan, the defending champion to boot.China needs Lin Dan in WC. still better to have 2 arrows than only 1
If I were Chen Long or LCW, I would very much want to beat him for the title whatever his form, at the very least have him competing even if he got knocked out by someone else,doesn't matter, not my fault - I would never want to be known as 'the 2013 WC because Lin Dan didn't play'.
So there's people out there that think Chen Long vs Lin Dan in the final will be exciting? Well, I suppose different audience have different taste in badminton matches. I for one, almost fell asleep watching them play 
. You can judge for yourself here.
[video=youtube;KiNtfoTzSzs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiNtfoTzSzs[/video]
If those two are really in the final of world championship, congratulation! But I will certainly switch channels to something slightly more interesting...like soap opera
.
. You can judge for yourself here.[video=youtube;KiNtfoTzSzs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiNtfoTzSzs[/video]
If those two are really in the final of world championship, congratulation! But I will certainly switch channels to something slightly more interesting...like soap opera
.
nokh88
Regular Member
As mentioned before, I don't watch CHN vs CHN matches. They are either boring or fakes.
FYI, I didn't click "play" on the above video.
FYI, I didn't click "play" on the above video.
Justin L
Regular Member
Simple logic,objective fact. If the WC Final is contested between Chen Long and Lin Dan, the title is already China's, nothing else at stake, no other thing to consider be it ranking points, Olympic qualification,whatever. It becomes less a match of CHN vs CHN but more a Battle of the Titans, the Challenger vs the Defending Champion, the two best players in the world fighting to be World Champion, simple as that. And I'm damn sure they both want to win it badly - one to announce 'My time has come', the other to prove 'I'm still The Best'.
What's more, I don't expect Chen Long today to be still so in awe of his more illustrious teammate, to respect him too much as to let him win by sheer respect, no more to that extent. We've all witnessed how Chen Long dealt with the Mighty Lee CW in their last two encounters,need I say more.
Besides, Chen Long,like everyone else,has seen what magnificent accolades,what incomparable achievements, esp the second Olympic gold won by Lin Dan, the same most-coveted medal that he himself was vying for but which slipped by him as he had to settle for bronze, not for lack of trying, but, for reasons best known to himself,for failing to play his best badminton at the time when he needed it most. This lesson, and the much more painful one in 2011 WC where he was sensationally humbled in R1 to suffer a humiliating defeat at the hands of a certain Guatemalan, Kevin Cordon, whose name he will never forget - both are lessons which will not be lost on him, never I believe.
What makes you think Chen Long has no such ambitions, no dreams of his own, to claim what is rightfully his when he has the recognised abilities and deserves it, that he is content to live in Super Dan's shadow forever ? Ask him. Why bother to strive to beat Lee CW then if he himself is not interested to be world champion and/or Olympic champion one day. And,yes,for that he will strive to beat Lin Dan too.
For me personally, I'm always full of admiration and grateful to China for her immense contributions to world badminton. I simply cannot imagine what badminton will be like without China. She, to a large extentt, sets and raises the standards for years if not decades, beginning with the time of Zhao Jianhua and Yang Yang to the present day with Lin Dan, and in other disciplines, WS, WD, in no small measure. And it's not just her players but the coaching standards too which has undeniably benefited many other countries. I trust BWF, the tournament organizers and the big-time sponsors see things more clearly and in a better perspective than the partisan fans.
Allow me to repeat here what I posted in Chen Long's thread as it is relevant: If I may apply Arsene Wenger's warning to Europe not to be jealous of English dominance in soccer to Chinese dominance in badminton: "The standards are really high here and the ones who lift the standards should be admired, should be followed and copied, and not be the victim of jealousy, for example."
Actually, I always smile to myself whenever I come across any of those China hating and bashing on the slightest pretext, for on the one hand they won't pass up any opportunity to put CHN down,but on the other hand, they openly wish and even vie to have CHN coaches train their own kind to beat the Chinese players, to cause their downfall. The smart,sensible and wise ones know that jealousy,sour grapes,narrow-mindedness,prejudices, bigotries and hypocrisies are self-defeating, self-destructive, and self-demeaning - for the only way (and I've repeated this many times) to beat the Chinese is to be better than them on the badminton court..
Enough said. Haiz, why bother myself so much. Just in case,no ad hominem arguments, please.
What's more, I don't expect Chen Long today to be still so in awe of his more illustrious teammate, to respect him too much as to let him win by sheer respect, no more to that extent. We've all witnessed how Chen Long dealt with the Mighty Lee CW in their last two encounters,need I say more.
Besides, Chen Long,like everyone else,has seen what magnificent accolades,what incomparable achievements, esp the second Olympic gold won by Lin Dan, the same most-coveted medal that he himself was vying for but which slipped by him as he had to settle for bronze, not for lack of trying, but, for reasons best known to himself,for failing to play his best badminton at the time when he needed it most. This lesson, and the much more painful one in 2011 WC where he was sensationally humbled in R1 to suffer a humiliating defeat at the hands of a certain Guatemalan, Kevin Cordon, whose name he will never forget - both are lessons which will not be lost on him, never I believe.
What makes you think Chen Long has no such ambitions, no dreams of his own, to claim what is rightfully his when he has the recognised abilities and deserves it, that he is content to live in Super Dan's shadow forever ? Ask him. Why bother to strive to beat Lee CW then if he himself is not interested to be world champion and/or Olympic champion one day. And,yes,for that he will strive to beat Lin Dan too.
For me personally, I'm always full of admiration and grateful to China for her immense contributions to world badminton. I simply cannot imagine what badminton will be like without China. She, to a large extentt, sets and raises the standards for years if not decades, beginning with the time of Zhao Jianhua and Yang Yang to the present day with Lin Dan, and in other disciplines, WS, WD, in no small measure. And it's not just her players but the coaching standards too which has undeniably benefited many other countries. I trust BWF, the tournament organizers and the big-time sponsors see things more clearly and in a better perspective than the partisan fans.
Allow me to repeat here what I posted in Chen Long's thread as it is relevant: If I may apply Arsene Wenger's warning to Europe not to be jealous of English dominance in soccer to Chinese dominance in badminton: "The standards are really high here and the ones who lift the standards should be admired, should be followed and copied, and not be the victim of jealousy, for example."
Actually, I always smile to myself whenever I come across any of those China hating and bashing on the slightest pretext, for on the one hand they won't pass up any opportunity to put CHN down,but on the other hand, they openly wish and even vie to have CHN coaches train their own kind to beat the Chinese players, to cause their downfall. The smart,sensible and wise ones know that jealousy,sour grapes,narrow-mindedness,prejudices, bigotries and hypocrisies are self-defeating, self-destructive, and self-demeaning - for the only way (and I've repeated this many times) to beat the Chinese is to be better than them on the badminton court..
Enough said. Haiz, why bother myself so much. Just in case,no ad hominem arguments, please.
sen
Regular Member
That was a very long comment.
My view is that there are several types of people, there are some who is just anti-China, some who is against the domination of a single country in badminton, some who just do not like the dirty tactics in order to maximise the Olympic medal chances and lastly there are people who does not belong to that 3 types.
This is not a thread to discuss China bashing or hating because it is a thread on whether Lin Dan will play in WC but I think I will comment a bit on that.
I grew up watching and admiring Zhao Jianhua and Yang Yang. I like China badminton in the 80s. In the 90s, the power shifted to Indonesia leading, mostly in men singles and men doubles while China still leading the women.
What I don't like lately is the Olympic over emphasis, especially CBA goals that clearly work towards achieving that and in the process anger many people.
Back to the World Championship 2013, it is almost unlikely for Lin Dan to be in top 24 by the end of qualification time so he forces CBA to make the difficult decision.
Whatever decision CBA makes, I think they will not make the wrong one(they have been proven right in the past in their selection, i.e Li Xuerui in Olympics, not bringing Wang Yihan in Asian Games).
If Lin Dan is fit, I think CBA will choose LD and CL, if not, they will choose CL and 2 other players.
I like what CBA did, they always chose the performing players, unlike some other national association in the past where they kept relying on the same talent, irregardless whether the players are in the right mindset or the right stamina.
In the end, I wrote again what will destroy China badminton is not the bashing by other countries. They might lose their dominant status in future but it will be through their own internal problem.
As for some who wish China coaches to train other countries in order for other countries to catch up, I think that will not matter too.
My view is that there are several types of people, there are some who is just anti-China, some who is against the domination of a single country in badminton, some who just do not like the dirty tactics in order to maximise the Olympic medal chances and lastly there are people who does not belong to that 3 types.
This is not a thread to discuss China bashing or hating because it is a thread on whether Lin Dan will play in WC but I think I will comment a bit on that.
I grew up watching and admiring Zhao Jianhua and Yang Yang. I like China badminton in the 80s. In the 90s, the power shifted to Indonesia leading, mostly in men singles and men doubles while China still leading the women.
What I don't like lately is the Olympic over emphasis, especially CBA goals that clearly work towards achieving that and in the process anger many people.
Back to the World Championship 2013, it is almost unlikely for Lin Dan to be in top 24 by the end of qualification time so he forces CBA to make the difficult decision.
Whatever decision CBA makes, I think they will not make the wrong one(they have been proven right in the past in their selection, i.e Li Xuerui in Olympics, not bringing Wang Yihan in Asian Games).
If Lin Dan is fit, I think CBA will choose LD and CL, if not, they will choose CL and 2 other players.
I like what CBA did, they always chose the performing players, unlike some other national association in the past where they kept relying on the same talent, irregardless whether the players are in the right mindset or the right stamina.
In the end, I wrote again what will destroy China badminton is not the bashing by other countries. They might lose their dominant status in future but it will be through their own internal problem.
As for some who wish China coaches to train other countries in order for other countries to catch up, I think that will not matter too.
bad's fan
Regular Member
yeah, you're right. not to mention if the match is the final one. watching China already won the title, whoever the player, surely will make a lot of anti-China fans feeling heart-ache.
but what to say? the CHN vs CHN matches will still going on as long as players from another countries still not able to challenge them yet. still, given the result in AE 2013, the development of badmintoon seems promising. let's just wait and see what will happen in the future.
afterall, CHN vs CHN matches still have its bright side, at least for you. it means you will have more time to watch another channel/show/programme instead badminton. is not that good?
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nokh88
Regular Member
Agree. this post (# 749) here at : http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...cation-to-FINAL-(12th-17th-March-2013)/page45
by nizze is very constructive and good to take note.
Actually there were some matches worth watching, like a few years ago in the final between ZN and XXF where both go all out to win. Sorry, can't remember which tournament.
On the opposite side, I watched live in the stadium (and very close to the action) a match between LD and CJ where the former just played to lose so that the latter can win ranking points.
Jonc108
Regular Member
BWF said they will not offer LD a wild card if he is not qualified to WC via world ra
BWF said they will not offer LD a wild card if he is not qualified to WC via world ranking.
BWF said they will not offer LD a wild card if he is not qualified to WC via world ranking.
Justin L
Regular Member
I'd just cut to the chase. If Lin Dan is denied a qualification spot to the WC by not giving him a wild card entry, who loses?
1) the sponsors for Lin Dan is the top draw,the crowd puller for the spectators and TV viewers as part of an effective marketing campaign;
2) BWF and the tournament organizer for failing to maximize the publicity and promotion of the sport that including Lin Dan would have brought after his long layoff for all the interest,excitement and speculative curiosity it generates;
3) the players, esp the main contenders presumably Lee CW and Chen Long, and other title pretenders for the the winner will have to live with the description "the 2013 World Champion but or because Lin Dan didn't play' - in other words the WC 2013 title loses some of its luster,status,prestige,recognition;
4) again the WC competitors for they are deprived of the best chance to beat Lin Dan who is,I believe, at his most vulnerable and weakest form in any major championship ever - ask Park Sung Hwan how it felt to be the one who dispatched him in the 2010 WC.
BWF COO, Thomas Lund, said BWF will not change the rule for anyone - but Lin Dan isn't just anyone. As badminton's most iconic figure, for his contributions to the sport, as the defending champion and four-time world champion, two-time Olympic champion, and widely-acknowledged as the Greatest of All Time - if he doesn't deserve to play then who does? It'll be such a shame if Lin Dan is denied entry because of a technicality.
Don't forget, this is the World Championship, not the Olympic Games where in the spirit of the Games the most important thing is not to win but to take part, and so on and so forth. In the World Championship, winning is everything and we want all the best players in every part of the world represented to compete for the legitimate title of World Champion.
1) the sponsors for Lin Dan is the top draw,the crowd puller for the spectators and TV viewers as part of an effective marketing campaign;
2) BWF and the tournament organizer for failing to maximize the publicity and promotion of the sport that including Lin Dan would have brought after his long layoff for all the interest,excitement and speculative curiosity it generates;
3) the players, esp the main contenders presumably Lee CW and Chen Long, and other title pretenders for the the winner will have to live with the description "the 2013 World Champion but or because Lin Dan didn't play' - in other words the WC 2013 title loses some of its luster,status,prestige,recognition;
4) again the WC competitors for they are deprived of the best chance to beat Lin Dan who is,I believe, at his most vulnerable and weakest form in any major championship ever - ask Park Sung Hwan how it felt to be the one who dispatched him in the 2010 WC.
BWF COO, Thomas Lund, said BWF will not change the rule for anyone - but Lin Dan isn't just anyone. As badminton's most iconic figure, for his contributions to the sport, as the defending champion and four-time world champion, two-time Olympic champion, and widely-acknowledged as the Greatest of All Time - if he doesn't deserve to play then who does? It'll be such a shame if Lin Dan is denied entry because of a technicality.
Don't forget, this is the World Championship, not the Olympic Games where in the spirit of the Games the most important thing is not to win but to take part, and so on and so forth. In the World Championship, winning is everything and we want all the best players in every part of the world represented to compete for the legitimate title of World Champion.
only CBA can deny LD to play at the World Championship.
LD is certainly eligible for the second MS to represent China.
If for whatever reason CBA decided to leave LD out and send 3 MS from the top 24 instead then turn around to BWF for a wildcard for LD, i think we may have a riot in hand!
keenobserver
Regular Member
Frankly I think no one should be made to feel he is indispensable...there should not be any prima donnas around...
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Justin L
Regular Member
By right,the defending champion should have automatic qualification, wild card is only for those who don't qualify based on ranking. Since BWF don't have such an auto-qualification rule , then wild card entry is the way; I see little reason for two other CHN players to be sacrificed when Lin Dan deserves it on his own merits. Perhaps the compromise is for him to replace one of the three CHN MS who qualified on ranking, and not 3+1 wild card.
That BWF might do anything that favours CHN should be the least of anybody's worries, for the contrary is the case according to Liu Fengyan, the former Head of the Table Tennis and Badminton Centre of China, who also once said that BWF practically rejects every proposal or suggestion put up by CHN even though they are beneficial to the sport.
Casting aside any sectarian views and feelings, prejudices or bias in favour of or against, the question whether Lin Dan should be given a wild card entry or not ought to be considered purely from the interests of badminton as a whole, in particular the stature of the World Champion Title.
That BWF might do anything that favours CHN should be the least of anybody's worries, for the contrary is the case according to Liu Fengyan, the former Head of the Table Tennis and Badminton Centre of China, who also once said that BWF practically rejects every proposal or suggestion put up by CHN even though they are beneficial to the sport.
Casting aside any sectarian views and feelings, prejudices or bias in favour of or against, the question whether Lin Dan should be given a wild card entry or not ought to be considered purely from the interests of badminton as a whole, in particular the stature of the World Champion Title.
nokh88
Regular Member
Frankly I think no one should be made to feel he is indispensable...there should not be any prima donnas around...
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Agree, you don't change the rules just to suit someone. There were no LD in tournaments since Oly 12 and I think we are doing fine. LCW didn't dominate. Let's have some new winners.
Justin L
Regular Member
I say,let's not bring in unrelated or extraneous issues and adopt an unbiased,objective approach.
In my opinion, the defending champion has every right, nay,it's even his duty, to defend the title of world champion, just as every contestant has the right to dethrone him. I'm sure nobody wants to become world champion by avoiding any worthy challenger as it would only serve to diminish his standing.
In my opinion, the defending champion has every right, nay,it's even his duty, to defend the title of world champion, just as every contestant has the right to dethrone him. I'm sure nobody wants to become world champion by avoiding any worthy challenger as it would only serve to diminish his standing.
not agreeing nor disagreeing to the above. i just want to point out:
there are some precedence in this, being Uber/Thomas/Sudirman Cup where the previous champions are automatically granted entry.
however, AFAIK, there is no such rule for the world championship. and for an international body like the BWF, they need to follow rules otherwise there will be chaos.
Justin L
Regular Member
I understand. As for such precedence, there are also a number of other sports that already set it, i.e. automatic qualification for the defending champion, eg in soccer, chess, just to name two.
About making changes, if it is beneficial and for the better of everyone and the sport itself, why not.History is replete with examples of human laws and rules and regulations being changed,modified,improved upon to suit new needs and altered circumstances. They aren't like Laws of Nature of which we can only obey and harness because they are eternal,universal and unchangeable.
I feel that such a rule change will ensure all future defending champions are entitled to fight for the title and can only lose it to someone better, not otherwise, as befitting the pre-eminent title of World Champion.
whats your opinion when xia xuanze unable to qualify for 2005 wc when he is 2003 wc?