Lin Dan ( 林丹 )

[shooting stroke]

But we know he is the best of all time, not only the best left-hander

Despite I'm a die hard schizophrenic Datuk LCW kinda level of fan, I have to admit that even I'm choking now, I have to agree about the statement that superdan is the best player of all time. Indeed. Without shadow of a doubt. Winning multiple Olympic, World and Asian title are already enough to make us mortal players seeing him as Titan.

But the part about that superdan is also the best left-handed is rather debatable. At my current near half century of age, i've watched many world class left handed player playing live. If you ask me, despite how captivating superdan may look when he's playing (I mean live, not from our TV), you haven't seen yet how Zhao Jiane Hua playing during his prime time. My jaw was unable to lift and I ended watching him in his full deceptive moves with my mouth open most of the time. Mesmerizing. His trademark jumping cross court smash and forehand straight shadow net play(where zhao head posture and eye view will be looking at and opposite direction while doing this net play) was something that you want to see again and again. IMHO Superdan is no doubt the best left handed player as far as referring to the scale of achievement in major tournament is concerned but the best and most nteresting left handed player to me will be Zhao

 

[j4ckie]

Despite I'm a die hard schizophrenic Datuk LCW kinda level of fan, I have to admit that even I'm choking now, I have to agree about the statement that superdan is the best player of all time. Indeed. Without shadow of a doubt. Winning multiple Olympic, World and Asian title are already enough to make us mortal players seeing him as Titan.

But the part about that superdan is also the best left-handed is rather debatable. At my current near half century of age, i've watched many world class left handed player playing live. If you ask me, despite how captivating superdan may look when he's playing (I mean live, not from our TV), you haven't seen yet how Zhao Jiane Hua playing during his prime time. My jaw was unable to lift and I ended watching him in his full deceptive moves with my mouth open most of the time. Mesmerizing. His trademark jumping cross court smash and forehand straight shadow net play(where zhao head posture and eye view will be looking at and opposite direction while doing this net play) was something that you want to see again and again. IMHO Superdan is no doubt the best left handed player as far as referring to the scale of achievement in major tournament is concerned but the best and most nteresting left handed player to me will be Zhao

Obviously everyone can have different favorites, as we value different things in players. LD, though, has the most complete array of achievements out of anyone, being one of the select few with multiple OG Golds, and the complete (and repeated) set of majors (OG, WC, AE). What elevates him even further imop is the fact that he achieved this with several strong contenders, most notably LCW, challenging him throughout. At the moment, it doesn't quite seem the same in any of the disciplines, with all players winning majors having their weaknesses and inconsistencies (with the obvious exception of the minions, who have so far only faltered at the biggest occasions).

Anyway, I know what you mean about Zhao, he is a very impressive player to watch. However, to judge a players' overall strength and success, I rather lean on titles and achievements to judge them rather than the eye test, as you can get distracted by flashier, more extravagant players and what they can do, although they're overall weaker due to inconsistency. Examples would be KKK or GVS, if you look at their highlights they can seem like the best in the world, but for every breathtaking special point they win the usually lose more than one by not being disciplined enough or being inconsistent.

 

[Yoji]

I thought KKK has more SS titles than LD? he might even be ranked at number 1 longer since the ranking is published. Cant say LD isnt flashy when he was young. He almost smashed the korea coach head.

 

[yuquall]

I thought KKK has more SS titles than LD? he might even be ranked at number 1 longer since the ranking is published. Cant say LD isnt flashy when he was young. He almost smashed the korea coach head.

Where is KKK now? How much money has he made all his career? Did KKK as WR1 earn as much as LD being not even top 10 now in a year? Isn't how much $$$$ one made is the most important thing in one's career?
How flashy is LD with that $$$ he makes every time he breaths the air?

 

[Rob3rt]

Isn't how much $$$$ one made is the most important thing in one's career?

For most players it's not, I think. Certainly not for fans.

 

[j4ckie]

For most players it's not, I think. Certainly not for fans.

For someone on this forum it's the #1 criterion - that and the number of titles (regardless which), because by that metric the minions would be the best, historically. And if they get eclipsed by someone else in that regard, they'll find new criteria and metrics by which theyre the best. Because being a fan isn't enough, you can't just enjoy watching someone play, that would be silly...!
And if someone else has a consistent standard by which they judge, they're just fanboys, of course. Regardless of who they actually like.

So while I have rooted for LCW in every major final I've watched, in secret I just like LD better and he's my idol, otherwise I couldnt possibly think he's the best.

 

[Rob3rt]

For someone on this forum it's the #1 criterion - that and the number of titles (regardless which), because by that metric the minions would be the best, historically. And if they get eclipsed by someone else in that regard, they'll find new criteria and metrics by which theyre the best. Because being a fan isn't enough, you can't just enjoy watching someone play, that would be silly...!
And if someone else has a consistent standard by which they judge, they're just fanboys, of course. Regardless of who they actually like.

But have they really won more titles already than say LYD, LCW or TTY?

 

[j4ckie]

But have they really won more titles already than say LYD, LCW or TTY?

Not than LCW, not by a long shot. I think they're ahead of LYD/YYS, but not LYD (given that he won more than half his titles with other partners). They're ahead of TTY if you only count World Tour/SS (tied if you count GPG/GP, one behind if only GPG).

 

[Yoji]

For someone on this forum it's the #1 criterion - that and the number of titles (regardless which), because by that metric the minions would be the best, historically. And if they get eclipsed by someone else in that regard, they'll find new criteria and metrics by which theyre the best. Because being a fan isn't enough, you can't just enjoy watching someone play, that would be silly...!
And if someone else has a consistent standard by which they judge, they're just fanboys, of course. Regardless of who they actually like.

So while I have rooted for LCW in every major final I've watched, in secret I just like LD better and he's my idol, otherwise I couldnt possibly think he's the best.

Not really, i regard LCW/LYD as more consistent than Minions though i secretly hoping they can beat LYD record (Kevin personally) it will give great satisfaction.

My criteria for best players are consistency. If they can keep winning title. not just one or few titles out of the blue. LCW/LYD/Kevin (at his age) fits that criterion.

 

[Fortune]

I thought KKK has more SS titles than LD?

SS start in 2007, before that, we call it open tournament. only different in name.

Lin Dan has 60+ titles until now

he might even be ranked at number 1 longer since the ranking is published. Cant say LD isnt flashy when he was young. He almost smashed the korea coach head.

from Feb 2004 - Aug 2008 (except 3 months for LCW and Gade), it was Lin Dan who is the world #1


WC 05 & 07 plus OG 04 & 08
first seed MS = Lin Dan

 

[Fortune]

Not really, i regard LCW/LYD as more consistent than Minions though i secretly hoping they can beat LYD record (Kevin personally) it will give great satisfaction.

by winning Malaysia open 2019, LD set new world record :

1+ titles for 18 consecutive years

My criteria for best players are consistency. If they can keep winning title. not just one or few titles out of the blue. LCW/LYD/Kevin (at his age) fits that criterion.

when Gade, Taufik, and LCW still in his prime, the world #1 is Lin Dan.

in 2004, Gade only 28 y.o., Taufik = 23, LCW = 22, LD = 21

 

[Fortune]

Lin Dan the best left handed badminton player of all time.

LD has something like 25 - 30 world records or even more.

the only one in history.

LD = G.O.A.T in badminton

 

[j4ckie]

LD has something like 25 - 30 world records or even more.

the only one in history.

LD = G.O.A.T in badminton

That seems way too high. Care to elaborate? He doesn't have most titles, but what would be examples for the records he allegedly holds...? Most MS OG Golds, most MS WC Golds, stuff like that, sure, but that's not going to add up to 25-30...most time as MS #1 should definitely be LCW too, come to think of it

 

[Justin L]

We will never know how good he would be if he is a right

Does handedness really matter ? I don't think so.

You know, when Tian Houwei first started, his initial coach insisted that he switched from left- to right-handed but somehow he would just naturally use his left-hand instead, so much so that his coach gave up and let him be. And he himself is of the view that there's no advantage in being left-handed.

 

[R20190]

LD = G.O.A.T in badminton

The idea of having someone described as the greatest of all time is such a subjective topic but few would argue that LD and LCW would be the foremost candidates for such a title (if there ever is one). As a fan of neither player but as someone who is simply obsessed with quality badminton for several decades now, this is my personal take on the subject.

I would place LD as the greatest MS player of all time. He has won everything there is to win and in convincing style. His skills, style of play and tactics is focused solely on the MS discipline. He is essentially the ultimate thoroughbred MS player. Of the two players, LD has had the upper hand over LCW and rightly deserves the title of GOAT in the MS discipline.

However, I would put LCW as the greatest badminton player of all time. Whilst he has not won (to my knowledge) any significant MD or XD titles, but based on the few occasions we have seen him play XD and MD competitively as well as his incredible skillset, it is unquestionable (to me at least) that LCW would be a formidable XD/MD player if he wanted to. His extraordinary speed, defensive and attacking skills together with an obviously clear understanding of XD and MD it is without doubt that he would excel in these disciplines given the right partners. Some may argue that LD could also have been an excellent XD/MD player if he wanted to but based on what I have seen of him, I would not share that view. I personally see LD’s skills as being so dedicated to MS that it doesn’t allow him to adapt well enough to play at an elite level in XD/MD. Not saying he can’t, obviously anything is possible, but he doesn’t seem to display the skills necessary to do well in top XD/MD. In contrast, if LCW wanted to, I have no doubt he could still challenge some of the best current MD/XD pairings with the right partner even at his age.

So if there is ever official accolades for being the GOAT. My vote would be LD as the GOAT in MS. LCW as the GOAT of our sport.

This is just my view of course!

 

[esppy]

That seems way too high. Care to elaborate? He doesn't have most titles, but what would be examples for the records he allegedly holds...? Most MS OG Golds, most MS WC Golds, stuff like that, sure, but that's not going to add up to 25-30...most time as MS #1 should definitely be LCW too, come to think of it

China counts all the Sudirmans, Thomas/Ubers, and AG team victories (maybe there's more I don't know but I doubt) as one championship as well... kinda shocked me when I heard at a programme the host/MC announced LD as a 18 time world champion back then. I'm like whaaaaaaa....??? The *bleep*?

Then it dawned on me like ohhhhh... people like Chai Biao or Tang Jinhua can have 1 or 2 stars on their shirt colored as well.. no wonder that's where it came from... I mean recognising a combined team effort is nice, but outside world don't see the glory as an individual's... communist spirit maybe? LOL getting a bit far fetched.

IIRC LD has 20/21 or something team championships, and along with his 5WC and 2OG, makes it about right at 25-30....

 

[j4ckie]

The idea of having someone described as the greatest of all time is such a subjective topic but few would argue that LD and LCW would be the foremost candidates for such a title (if there ever is one). As a fan of neither player but as someone who is simply obsessed with quality badminton for several decades now, this is my personal take on the subject.

I would place LD as the greatest MS player of all time. He has won everything there is to win and in convincing style. His skills, style of play and tactics is focused solely on the MS discipline. He is essentially the ultimate thoroughbred MS player. Of the two players, LD has had the upper hand over LCW and rightly deserves the title of GOAT in the MS discipline.

However, I would put LCW as the greatest badminton player of all time. Whilst he has not won (to my knowledge) any significant MD or XD titles, but based on the few occasions we have seen him play XD and MD competitively as well as his incredible skillset, it is unquestionable (to me at least) that LCW would be a formidable XD/MD player if he wanted to. His extraordinary speed, defensive and attacking skills together with an obviously clear understanding of XD and MD it is without doubt that he would excel in these disciplines given the right partners. Some may argue that LD could also have been an excellent XD/MD player if he wanted to but based on what I have seen of him, I would not share that view. I personally see LD’s skills as being so dedicated to MS that it doesn’t allow him to adapt well enough to play at an elite level in XD/MD. Not saying he can’t, obviously anything is possible, but he doesn’t seem to display the skills necessary to do well in top XD/MD. In contrast, if LCW wanted to, I have no doubt he could still challenge some of the best current MD/XD pairings with the right partner even at his age.

So if there is ever official accolades for being the GOAT. My vote would be LD as the GOAT in MS. LCW as the GOAT of our sport.

This is just my view of course!

Interestingly, I have seen some of LCW's MD exhibitions and XD tournament play and did not have that impression. It seemed to me like he could hang with the big guys in terms of attacking from the back/mid-court, but would be exploited in the net area and defensively. He could probably have gotten to a passable level in XD, where the overall pace and nature of the rallies are different, but I wouldn't be too sure if he could've gotten to the same level as in MS. He also has some very specific skills that don't transfer at all, like his incredible half-diving defense.
I don't think there's any such judgement possible (I.e. player X would've been better in discipline Y), it's more or less an eye test only, which as I said can be very misleading (for example, Chen Long really doesn't look all that spectacular compared to players like LCW, LD, Axelsen, Kidbi).
Anyway, to each their own. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, I just have a different impression and I think both are equally unprovable

 

[cboptkh]

I think LD's record of reaching 10 All England finals and 7 world championship finals is also a incredible achievement.

 

[Fortune]

That seems way too high. Care to elaborate?

for sure, but not now

He doesn't have most titles, but what would be examples for the records he allegedly holds...?

that because you also count 3 commonwealth games (CWG) titles where LD can't take part.
to be fair, both players has the same number : 66 titles


but if you insists to count CWG titles, then what about Thomas and Sudirman cup titles for Lin Dan ?

Most MS OG Golds, most MS WC Golds, stuff like that, sure, but that's not going to add up to 25-30...

for sure, something like that.

- Lin Dan is the only MS to win all major / multi year events (Olympics, World Championships, Thomas Cup, Sudirman Cup, Asian Games individual and Asian Games team)...1 world record...
plus he was the most successful MS in all 6 important events above...6 world records...
that is already 7 world records.

- 12 years non stop winning major / multi years events, from Thomas Cup 2004 to Sudirman Cup 2015

- also, the most wins and longest unbeaten run in World Championships, Thomas Cup and Sudirman Cup.
another 6 world records.

- undefeated in all Thomas cup and Sudirman cup final matches (8 / 8)...100% winning records

- 30 matches won in a row, start from Chinese Taipei open, Macau, Hong Kong, World Championships, Japan, and QF China open 2006.

- 1+ title for 18 consecutive years.


and also something like the most MS title in China open, china master, germany open and so on

plus the youngest and the oldest MS to win certain events...


that is already 19 or 20 world records or even more...


be patient, more data to come...

most time as MS #1 should definitely be LCW too, come to think of it

that because LD take his foot off the pedal...just after win Beijing 08
as an olympics champion, he can earn 5 - 10 times more money by doing off court (promotional) activities than badminton prize money...

do you think he can get huge sponsorship deals from Yonex if he is / was not multiple Olympics and world champion ?


but when he really focus in badminton, from 20XX - aug 2008, LCW only at the top for 3 months, while LD being #1 for almost 4.5 years.


back to 2009, LD only need to play 1 match (R1) no matter win or lose in any super series event, to become world #1...but that doesn't happen because he is too busy with the promotional.

 

[Fortune]

I think LD's record of reaching 10 All England finals and 7 world championship finals is also a incredible achievement.

yeah, 6 AE titles is the most in the modern era where every players around the world can participate