Lin Dan ( 林丹 )

[lcleing]

haha lcleing i couldn't agree more. however, there's one point i want to make, that because of that really dynamic (i mean SURPRISING dynamic) play, lin dan was caught several times off guard because of a slower, more technical pace. LCW was really firing those smashes every where, and combining them with several dropshots, really cost LD several points. one question, you go to all of these matches and see LD fo real? man i envy you so much. In china and not even see LD in the flesh.....

Did you mean that LD, who has a dynamic play, could not cope with the slow tactical play? Or did I misunderstand you?
I agree that LD was caught offguard at the start of second set. He totally did not expect LCW to have such a reserve of fitness left after a tough first game.

I only managed to watch AE from quater final onwards to final, met LD in person too in a Malaysian restaurant. However, he did not want his photographs to be taken. I downloaded all the German Open videos which was played by LD and tried to copy some of his strokes. Not having much success in copying him up until now I must confess .

 

[WingsAir]

yes it was a rather strange. LD who usually has the dynamic play was playing it slow (slower then usual against LCW) and LCW was really playing it powerfully, and really getting LD offguard. haha i try to do that, but since im right handed its not easy wow really met LD in restaurant... you are unbelievable!

 

[cobalt]

Lcleing:
It's easy to look good and fast and strong when your opponent is a notch below you in all-round capability (no offense to Marc Z ) and I don't mean to imply that LD has completely lost it, either! But against top class opposition (the only type that counts in the end) he appears to be much more vulnerable than ever before. Is this a ploy? I think not. If there was a consistent glitch that I noticed, it was that he struggled to get to the baseline quickly enough to be in position for a return smash that could set up a point for him. His readings of mid-court exchanges too were suspect; notice how many times he either hit the bird out of the tramlines, or into the net? Combine these and you know you have a problem?

I have seen a few LD games sadly, going to 3 sets, that shouldn't have. If someone suggests that he is doing this just because he is bored, I can only say that at the level they play, these players do not want to exend themselves on court more than they really have to. So, what does that tell me? It tells me that all is not as well as it used to be.

Can he correct it? He is a champion; I suppose he can if he wants to. Will he? I think I'll hold on to my money.

 

[pBmMalaysia]

If your returns are faster than your opponent's,

then you are in business

 

[Yoppy]

LD has lost some touch, thats no doubt. Not only on this 2011 AE but from last few months. Even when he won KO, he struggled all the way to final. Notably almost lost the SF againts Simon, and in the final LCW also could have finished him off if not for a few unlucky moments.

 

[jimbo]

LD has lost some touch, thats no doubt. Not only on this 2011 AE but from last few months. Even when he won KO, he struggled all the way to final. Notably almost lost the SF againts Simon, and in the final LCW also could have finished him off if not for a few unlucky moments.

Last nite I watched the repeat of KO2011 and I compared the final match with the AE2011... I noticed that LD didn't have the strong legs for the AE2011... lacked of his lethal weapons... not sure why... may be he was fatigued after the GO2011 a week prior to the AE2011...

In KO2011, it was clear to me that LD was a bit fresh n energetic...

 

[cobalt]

Agree with Yoppy re. KO2011. LCW lost the match as much as LD won it. LCW still had to get over his mental block and fear of not knowing what LD would do next, and was edgy throughout the match. You could often see it in his eyes. Hopefully he's over that now.

Simon as well did not display the killer instinct when he had the game in his hands; he has no one to blame but himself. Sloppy.

Oops, this is a Lin Dan thread! And yet, the man is good enough to be among the top 2 players in the world, today!

 

[undeadshot]

Wow, people making bold predictions about LD losing his touch, etc. again (there were people who said he was aging, etc. last year too)... We shall see in the next meeting, whether he has really lost his touch or not?

 

[jimbo]

When was the last time Lin Dan lost to the same player twice consecutively and in straight games?

 

[Yoppy]

Wow, people making bold predictions about LD losing his touch, etc. again (there were people who said he was aging, etc. last year too)... We shall see in the next meeting, whether he has really lost his touch or not?

I'm keen to know too. Next few tournaments leading out to next year OG will give us a better picture

 

[Yoppy]

When was the last time Lin Dan lost to the same player twice consecutively and in straight games?

Don't get me wrong jimbo, LD is a master in my eye and always enjoy watching him play. In some sense I enjoy watching LD more than LCW. But I'm just saying that he's prime maybe well behind him now. Nothing last forever, right? Just like all legends before him had their days numbered.

 

[Bbn]

Well said, but just look at the AE 2010 and how he kept coming back from behind to narrow the score.

Its true that he can be beaten but never easily.In the last year or so, he sometimes looked as though he was going to break a bone or too

and he is only hanging on because of his determination and experience, just like Gade or Taufik.

 

[extremenanopowe]

Is his knees wobbling yet??? Married life is good for him.

 

[chris-ccc]

I'm keen to know too. Next few tournaments leading out to next year OG will give us a better picture

.
I believe that LD was a little off his form lately. He should be able to do win more tournaments when his form returns.
.

 

[lcleing]

Lcleing:
It's easy to look good and fast and strong when your opponent is a notch below you in all-round capability (no offense to Marc Z ) and I don't mean to imply that LD has completely lost it, either! But against top class opposition (the only type that counts in the end) he appears to be much more vulnerable than ever before. Is this a ploy? I think not. If there was a consistent glitch that I noticed, it was that he struggled to get to the baseline quickly enough to be in position for a return smash that could set up a point for him. His readings of mid-court exchanges too were suspect; notice how many times he either hit the bird out of the tramlines, or into the net? Combine these and you know you have a problem?

I have seen a few LD games sadly, going to 3 sets, that shouldn't have. If someone suggests that he is doing this just because he is bored, I can only say that at the level they play, these players do not want to exend themselves on court more than they really have to. So, what does that tell me? It tells me that all is not as well as it used to be.

Can he correct it? He is a champion; I suppose he can if he wants to. Will he? I think I'll hold on to my money.

Marc might not be player of LD's quality but he is a good player. He beat Hafiz and Chen Long enroute to the final of Denmark Open 2009. And he did beat Kashyap(the current Indian no 1) and CJ to reach the semifinal. Surely, he must have something in him to be able to beat these players. I do not know what exactly you expect MArc to do but he did also stretch players like Gade to 3 sets before(and beating Gade in some Euro championship before if I remember correctly), proving that he is not a player easy to play with.

LD is much more vulnerable than before? Can you highlight to me on which era of Lin Dan are you comparing to? 2009, when LD looked almost invincible just because he was well rested, have more time to train and only play less than 9 tournaments in a year(surely, participating less means that you will have less chances to lose for player of LD's calibre, was it not?)? If you are talking about LD in the era of pre-2008, my gut feeling said that LD in 2011 will most likely beat the LD of that past era as he is so much more a complete player than he was before(more crafty as well).

Regarding about some BCers claiming that LD losing his touch, I personally don't agree with that. I found that his touch around the net was exceptional during recent matches and I was quite surprised to find that LCW can't keep up with LD's netplay although the general consensus is LCW used to have better netplays years ago. LD definitely is one of the best around net if not the best(I don't think even Hidayat can beat him in this department). Which is why he rely less on his jumping smashes to score nowadays, because there's simply no need to.

Another thing is most of the players(especially the lower rank players) including Nguyen Tien Min/Chen Jin do not like to take LD on the net these days. From recent matches, they always lift or drive LD off the net. This is exactly when LD did his jump smashes because he knew these players won't want to play him at net. Probably that gives you an impression that LD was much more faster and more explossive when playing against lower rank players. The only few players that I see who dare to take LD on net was LCW, SS (this two did reasonably well although I still think LD has the better touch from AE or KO 2011) and Marc(I don't think he did quite well, but he knew he has no choice but to take that one chance in AE semifinal. Surprisingly, LD helped him by making some errors on net during the second set).

And I am not quite sure where the weak in the legs claim came from. I saw LD did plenty of jump smashes in AE finals, it's just that it wasn't as effective as before as LCW's defense was made of steel(or maybe thick lead) on that day. The struggle back to the court was partly due to LD's not being able to read :CW's shots as mentioned by my previous post and LCW kept the tempo very high in this game(even Ian and Gill mentioned that). So again I am not sure why there is a claim that those 2 was playing a slow tactical game came from. At least it didn't look like that to me.

 

[eaglehelang]

Wow, people making bold predictions about LD losing his touch, etc. again (there were people who said he was aging, etc. last year too)... We shall see in the next meeting, whether he has really lost his touch or not?

Nah, LD's usual trend is he doesnt win two weeks in a row. And he takes his time to fully prepare, like the months bf WC(the years before CBL), OG,AG. To a certain extent AE too


My goodness lcleing, you're writing now like another member mafan, LOL.

 

[Tekkai]

If LD is losing his touch then all I can say is that he has past his prime..LD the legend and the best player on this planet is still human after all..he cant last forever, he aint bionic.. Let us see LCW now..lets see if he can keep up till OG12..who knows his body might break down too before OG12..

 

[flite]

It all depend on what benchmark one uses on LD. If you compare LD of OG2008 and LD of today then I would say the former was more lethal, focus and hungry for success.

No doubt LD is still the top man today in the circuit with more finesse added to his game, he loses some of his power, speed and stamina too along the way. This is simply because of aging and his body could not tolerate to operate in such a high level all the time.

Of course it needed another player of his caliber to bring the match to such intensity as to exposed his weaknesses and that being LCW. On an off form LD who could still struggle to pull it off against other players, it was because those players (with due respect) have yet to reach the level where LD is.

All in all, the hectic schedule at the beginning of 2011, age, body condition and the rise/improvement in LCW are some of the related factors contributed to the current LD.

But, like what everyone else's are saying, the next few months will give us a better indication on whether LD will come back stronger to conquer again or like all badminton greats before him that peaked for 2-3 years, that his time is up.

 

[Tekkai]

It all depend on what benchmark one uses on LD. If you compare LD of OG2008 and LD of today then I would say the former was more lethal, focus and hungry for success.

No doubt LD is still the top man today in the circuit with more finesse added to his game, he loses some of his power, speed and stamina too along the way. This is simply because of aging and his body could not tolerate to operate in such a high level all the time.

Of course it needed another player of his caliber to bring the match to such intensity as to exposed his weaknesses and that being LCW. On an off form LD who could still struggle to pull it off against other players, it was because those players (with due respect) have yet to reach the level where LD is.

All in all, the hectic schedule at the beginning of 2011, age, body condition and the rise/improvement in LCW are some of the related factors contributed to the current LD.

But, like what everyone else's are saying, the next few months will give us a better indication on whether LD will come back stronger to conquer again or like all badminton greats before him that peaked for 2-3 years, that his time is up.

exactly..well said..

 

[Jonc108]

It's amazing that people are always keen to jump to quick conclusion that "LD's time is up" whenever LD been beaten by LCW.

No doubt that LCW was in his best form now, and with his age grown (look, this comes the benefits of aging ), mentally he looked like better at big occasions (in light of his AE final with LD). His greater desire for more success in majors and more proper training would of course contribute to his much better form than LD who was to certain extent having his training and therefore physical form distracted by so many personal stuff (wedding, commercial commitments, etc..) after winning every majors esp achieving the Super Grand Slam in AG...

Aging? Kidding me, LD is younger than LCW!

How long do you think LCW could keep his super physical form like now? LCW would definitely like to keep it up to next year's OG (his last chance).

LCW deserves his current run given his effort. Yet I don't think LD is finished unless he finally decided to finish himself.

Don't forget that LD still holds a dominating H2H record over LCW, even for the most recent 10 meetings. We should wait until LCW beats LD 5 times in a row..