Lee Chong Wei ( 李宗伟 )

Discussion in 'Malaysia Professional Players' started by tbleong, Jan 8, 2007.

  1. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    I did not have the chance to read the links you provided, perhaps they explain what you are talking about. Meanwhile, it just looks like random venting of frustration.
     
  2. esppy

    esppy Regular Member

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    Nope.

    Links are what happened, I give my view. Done.
     
  3. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

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    Morten Frost's pin drop silence on a certain Olympic Medalist means surely he was cooking something in the Pressure Cooker but something inside the cooker had enough of these Danish recipes and then this happened.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. CIA-99

    CIA-99 Regular Member

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    I am just bored to see these posts again and again. LCW and MF has gone separate ways. LCW vents out due to his injury and what could have been avoided. It was a misunderstanding of each other. I don't get why Fox and Justin just want to disrespect and defame LCW. What kind of things do you want to accomplish, really?
     
  5. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    What I meant is that I did not understand most of what you said. I do not mean you are wrong, I am not qualified to have an informed opinion on what's happening inside BAM
     
  6. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Defame is not the right word, never my intention. If, as you say, it's all a misunderstanding between LCW and MF, why can't LCW after his initial blowup and MF's clam-up, then settle his grievances with MF in the presence of BAM top officials behind closed door ?

    Bear in mind that even the BAM president and his deputy refused to be drawn into the dispute by directly taking sides and going into the details of who is right, the whys and wherefores, etc. Rather they are trying their best to do damage control, dousing the fire, making peace between them, offering a makeshift solution or stopgap measure allowing both LCW and MF to go their separate ways pursuing their own goals without having to cross each other's path while still remaining within BAM (effectively,LCW need not report to MF and MF has no say in anything regarding LCW).

    Without knowing all the ins and outs except what's been reported in the press which consisted mostly of LCW's side of the story as MF chose to shut up and didn't or hardly utter a word in defense, clarification or explanation of whatever LCW accused him of, I really can't comment too much on the specifics. The gist of my posts is mainly to take issue with LCW's manner of handling the matter after the slippery mat incident.
     
  7. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    You are certainly correct

    http://www.thestar.com.my/sport/bad...ve-no-say-as-chong-wei-joins-special-project/

    “It was a proposal by Frost ... but we have made some adjustments to it. This special project is solely for Chong Wei and his team and it’s to prepare him for this year’s world meet,” BAM coaching and training committee (C&T) chairman Datuk Seri Norza Zakaria.

    “This decision is made to help Chong Wei win the world title and I wish him all the best. But I also hope the others in the project will benefit from it,” said the Dane.

    “I will not have any say in this project ... it’s not a problem. It’s only fair that Hendrawan takes charge and he will be accountable to the C&T directly.”




    Interesting. LCW gets special treatment and it is spread out in the public. If LCW messes up, then Morten gets no blame. If the other players don't do well, Morten is not responsible. Nothing to stop LCW now from training with quality partners and preparing M'sias next generation of winners.
     
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  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Me too, I don't fully get the crux of it, what with those Chinese links that I'd need a bit of time to digest (with translation, where necessary).

    @esppy, apparently, you're trying to present what led LCW to behave the way he did publicly and where you thought MF had gone wrong the past 1.5 years. Still, there is always two sides of the story in every dispute, esp the intentions and motivations,between the accuser and the accused, the plaintiff and the defendant. A case of misunderstanding, negligence, incompetence, misguided motives, following top management's orders but executing them incorrectly, communication breakdown (but what led to it?), over-eagerness to achieve set goals, high-handedness, insubordination, unwillingness to cooperate, clash of egos, self-centeredness, acting like a diva, misalignment of goals, and so on and so forth ?!

    I guess a deep and profound analysis, objectively and impartially conducted, delving into the causes and effects honestly and truthfully - probably too tedious, time-consuming, tricky and difficult - might be called for. But I doubt, next to impossible now,perhaps not necessary if all the parties concerned have the will and sincerity to work things out together. Don't look back, look forward - MF is all for it, he's most happy and willing to, as he's openly declared.

    Whether it's MF backtracking, reversing , admitting guilt, finally acceding to LCW's requests or demands, adopting a hands-off approach to LCW, letting Hendrawan and Tey Seu Bock with his MS group to do whatever it takes for LCW's last hurrah, making a compromise, giving way, offering an olive branch, etc - still it's MF initiating the overtures, what more do we expect from him, the Technical Director ?

    Just curious, what were MF's contractual terms with BAM, was he given free rein, was it imposed on him to achieve certain targets for BAM, what were his top priorities, was he specifically instructed to facilitate LCW achieving his aims (how and to what extent?) ?

    Curioser, deputy president Norza admitted he was aware of the quarrels and differences between LCW and MF sometime ago and has been trying to resolve the problem but in vain. Hmm...

    Some questions and thoughts:

    1) What's Victor, the manufacturer, got to say about their brand new mats being slippery ?

    2) Is this the first time new Victor mats were used by BAM, whether at the old or new training center ? As I've pointed out, BWF has a couple of tournaments sponsored by Victor and KBA, if I'm not wrong, is a Victor sponsored client - what's their experience, any feedback, similar incidents of mat slipperiness ? A related question is - aren't Victor mats approved by BWF and meeting the requisite standards, quality, etc?

    3) Insole, outer rubber sole - perhaps MF missed your point, having custom-made insole for the players won't address the slippery mat issue as it is the outer rubber that's in direct contact with the mat. In that case , back to my Q1 for Victor to answer.

    4) If a cleaning lady called more often to clean up the mats can do the job, I'd expect the players to take it upon themselves as well to use a mop whenever they feel the floor is slippery instead of waiting for her each time; remember, there are 18 courts. And why take risks when a quick mop will do the trick?

    5) Later after the unfortunate LCW slipping incident, 3 of the 18 mats were replaced by having the old, used ones transported over from the old academy. What about the remaining 15 new and supposedly slippery ones ? Another accident waiting to happen to another hapless player forced to train on those mats ? Strange, nobody is talking further about the said 15 Victor mats.

    6) This is MF's second stint with BAM. How's his performance previously despite his short stay? No issue between LCW and MF at that time ? I supposed it's good enough, overall, for BAM to poach him with an attractive offer - too good for him to turn down - this time.

    7) What has MF done or contributed to MAS badminton during his tenure so far ? Any credit due him, two of the three silvers at Rio'16, discounting LCW's ?

    8) Is MF really the problem ? If so, why didn't top management point the finger at him and kick him out ? We all know what the BAM president said and why he came out with the solution he presented. No playing the blame game.

    9) Even LCW lamented the dire state of MAS MS, all the more the onus is on MF, the TD, to focus on developing the younger echelon or next generation of players. I'd have thought that is MF's main concern and top priority,in addition to the good work he's done for MD and XD, presumably. In other words, he's not expected to put LCW first but to strike a proper balance for the whole national team; never mind, they are now to be treated as two separate matters that can be run concurrently as they are not mutually exclusive goals, fostering new talents and LCW's last shot at gold.

    (Pardon me,I'll stop here,it's getting late and l've another urgent matter to rush off. Nice conversation, civil and cordial.)
     
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  9. FeatherBlaster

    FeatherBlaster Regular Member

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    Quick comment:

    That stuff with the insoles has nothing to do with the slippery mats.

    There are currently SIX players on the injury list, and another 4 has been in 2017.

    That's 10 injuries in 2 months. And it is this general trend MF is trying to help the Malaysians break, by forcing them to take a bit more scientific driven view on their shoes.
     
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  10. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    The way the article presents the dispute makes me think the mat problem and the injury were just a tool used by LCW to get his independence in his training regime, which he got.
     
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  11. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

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    Woah! So long almost Chen like Long.Didn't read fully.

    Regarding what Frost Did - Didn't Chong Wei say Frost did nothing of notice and any other local coach with the same salary as Frost would have done same.

    That's the boldest statement Chong Wei has ever given in his career.
     
  12. wahchai305

    wahchai305 Regular Member

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    me think lcw is mentally fragile.
    when he lost to s.kuncoro at the 2007 w.championship in kl, his utterance was all over the shop. i was there watching that match and the aftermath. it didnt look good. subsequent reports of who/what he blamed certainly did not include himself. misbun was trying to speak calmly to him. was lcw listening to him?
    lcw body language tells me...nope.
    in the same tournament, when c.yun/f.h.fung lost to a msia md pair....the anger i saw was that of one of them smash his racket on the ground. observing from a distance, i could see china support staff quietly talking to the both of them, hand over shoulder, giving reassurances.
    some 15min later, were they continuing ranting away?
    nope. they were in the practice courts doing serving practices.
    i remember thinking - herein lie the difference.
     
    #12892 wahchai305, Feb 22, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
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  13. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

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    About the proposal........ Any potential result and hard efforts put into a training structure will eventually get stagnant in long term if it's core management and decision making authories involves politician or high profile corporate figures IMHO. That goes as well to the fate of the other sports here in Malaysia currently. Their role in all of this high level policy and decision making should only be in the other departments but not in the coaching structure. This what should be highlighted in MFH proposal

    If BAM wants to be on the right track then figures of the wife of this guy or the president of a car manufacturer or whatever big factory manufacturer that has a Tan Sri or Datuk as their chairman, to such figures.....refine your role in how to get the proper and relevant budget from the government, required infrastructures, funding etc and let the coaching staff's do their work with full authority without needing to report to a comitee that is chaired by a lawyer (who just recently received his datukship) for approval......( This is why the legendary and coach MISBUN SIDEK has never in fond to come back to BAM. )

    No doubt the proposal is a good thing to the players esp DLCW as it was especially trimmed to suits him as well but the hidden problems still lurk about who is going to make the decision....as usual certainly not the coaches. If Mr Hendrawan neck is going to be slaughtered if no favourable achievements produce within this coming month and years then by all mean let him or MFH make all the call rather then the CTC comitee will do it.
     
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  14. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    I took the delivery of a brand new sport car last week (*), top of the range with every options added. Got it the car for a spin, feel great but after a while something just wasn’t right. The brake wasn’t as responsive as it should for a car with that power.

    Now is the dilemma, should I stay clear of it and take the car back to the showroom and demand it to be checked/repaired properly. Or, carrying on driving it until the brake failed with me in the hospital bed so that I can prove it I was right all the time.

    Any advices would be much appreciated.

    (*) - I wish
     
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  15. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    A smart and prudent move by Morten Frost.
     
  16. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I'm falling for your bait. Hey, you've got very expensive stuff there, with all the bells and whistles, paying a bomb for it c/w comprehensive warranties and some free servicing. Why not make the best use of it, get your money's worth, that's your entitlement ? Most of all, for safety's sake, for yourself and your passengers and other road users, drive to the seller's workshop right now - it's your bounden duty. Better safe than sorry.:p:D:)
     
  17. FeatherBlaster

    FeatherBlaster Regular Member

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    That's obvious.

    If you read correct sources, LCW told the mat problem to Hendre want, who then said it to some heads of BAM and MF. Not just MF. So everyone was in that chain. It's not like LCW told MF, who then turned him down.

    Same thing about the insensitive issue, which is utterly crap for a person who understands Danish mentality.

    MF learns that LCW gets a knee injury, and then in a conversation with HENDRAWAN, he naturally asks how serious the injury is, and knowing LCW is in the final phase of his career, he asks if he will be able to come back. It's Danish mentality to be honest in such a situation and speak/ask what is on your mind, if it's relevant for your job. So again it's not some communication directly between LCW and MF, it's MF asking Hendrawan a legitimate question, and Hendrawan telling LCW about the conversation afterwards. So many things can be distorted when it's "he said she said"... For LCW to take that up as a personal insult is BS. But he has probably been frustrated (understandably) and he is in a position where he ultimately needs 100% focus on his own training and recovery in order to make a final comeback so he's going for that LCW setup (naturally).

    BAM and LCW is and has been in a position, where it's LCW or nothing, so he has been able to more or less dictate the terms. If not, he can pull the I'll leave you card (which he just did), effectively not giving BAM any choice - they will stand out as morons in the eyes of the public, if they break with LCW, their only hope.

    So, this whole situation was honestly unavoidable. MF was hired to do a job, that when push comes to shove, his employer can't allow him to do.

    LCW ended up in a situation where he had to be selfish to have a shot at winning the WC. And all sports people at this level should be selfish enough to grab such a chance. If they are not, they wouldn't be at this level.

    The only thing in this whole matter that stands out, is that probably LCW have some personal issue with MF, and apparently is willing to air it in public. Which MF professionally and correct chooses not to. LCW's injury probably put him over the edge, and made him go public with frustrations.

    It's a minor thing that they are not on each others Christmas card lists, I'm sure MF can handle it. And the solution they have come up with is the only way for everyone to move forward without BAM stepping too much over LCW or MF's toes.

    If anyone is to blame, it's BAM.

    ----

    Now, I can't help but think, if Hendrawan has a larger role to play. He was middleman and source in both situations that escalated the matter, and he was the one who could have diffused things. (Making sure mats were fixed instead of just leaning back with a "I told the others" excuse, and he could have avoided upsetting LCW by telling him about his private conversation with MF about the injury).
    Plus Hendrawan stands to gain the most of anyone, as a result of the conflict...

    Cheers,
    FB
     
  18. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^ Don't go spreading rumors about Hendrawan. LCW said in an interview that because of him and MF not seeing eye to eye for past 1.5 yrs since MF not allowing Tay SeuBok to accompany him to Japan Open, Hendrawan had to be his go between line of communication. And he said that Hendrawan has always been the one to tell him to just stay low and not escalate.
     
  19. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    I think MF and LCW got into a clash because MF believes LCW is not BAM's hope, he is its problem. I say so because he tried to change LCW's training program to make it fit the team, instead of the team fitting LCW's need. And this what made LCW go into a rage.
    This is only my hypothesis.
     
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  20. FeatherBlaster

    FeatherBlaster Regular Member

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    Not spreading rumors, just pointing out the same fact as you are stating: Hendrawan is LCW's guy. They are a duo. And it's Hendrawan doing the communication with MF. So he probably is the one to dampen any issues, being either conflict of interest or personal in regards to who said what.

    He have done so for a long period of time, but apparently not this time. Maybe he couldn't, maybe he wouldn't, I don't know.

    You have to look at it from Hendrawan's perspective also: He has one goal, and was hired for a specific task. And it's not helping MF in his battle of priorities with BAM. It's not making sure that the next mixed doubles pair will be any good. His job was to make sure that LCW gets his OG or WC gold. Nothing else.

    Maybe - just maybe - Hendrawan is simply doing his job.

    (Please note: Even if Hendrawan had been an active part of the escalation, I don't think you can blame him. It's all going back to BAM for betting on two horses, asking MF to do one thing, and LCW/Hendrawan to do another).

    Cheers,
    FB
     
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