India Badminton

Discussion in 'India Professional Players' started by limsy, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. Sumanth99

    Sumanth99 Regular Member

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    What about coach Agus, We can't send a puke raja and blame coach but will his contract be extended?
     
  2. Baddie lover

    Baddie lover Regular Member

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    I think we haven't given time to Agus much to come to conclusion whether he's fine or not. I've always believed coach or player alone can't do wonders alone. It's the coordination. Let there be more tournaments and we'll see whether Agus tactics are working or not. But man, whatever coach you bring, it's the players who have to slog it out. If this is how Indian MS perform, I wish Agus all the best and take assignments in Japan or Korea where there are players who are in touch with reality and willing to give their best. Good for them and good for Agus.
     
  3. badmuse

    badmuse Regular Member

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    A top level coach duties
    a)Raise skill levels to required international standards
    b) Supreme fitness levels
    c)Instil mental confidence in players

    Gopichand was able to
    a)Raise skill levels to required international standards
    b)Good fitness levels for all players (Supreme fitness levels
    only for Olympic qualified players
    , 2016 Sindhu and Srikanth) (Was unable to do it for Saina Nehwal in 2012 because of her being injury prone due to her small feet problem. See Saina Nehwal thread archives) Saina's fitness levels were good during her peak but never supreme.
    c)Instil mental confidence in WS players ( Was only able to with Saina Nehwal and PV Sindhu. Because of Saina's physical limitations, there was a limit of how much fitness she could achieve and push herself she was always mentally vulnerable in big tournaments. Thus PV Sindhu's record is better in major tournaments. This resulted in Saina'a All England and WC QF jinx. Only Vimal Kumar was able to help her break this mental jinx in 2015, when Saina got All England Runner Up and WC silver medal. Gopichand was unable to instil mental confidence with Indian MS.

    The disappointments of Gopichand as Head Coach
    1.Delay in hiring top level Doubles coach
    till end of 2015. Gopichand became Head coach in 2008. Tan Kim Her hired in 2015.
    2.Bias towards players of Gopichand Academy. All other talented players from other academies or individual coaches ignored and not given opportunities. Result lot of wasted talent. Till 2018, there was a core group of 40 players selected from the Gopichand academy to go on exposure tournaments, everyone else was ignored and had to spend personal funds to travel. This was inspite of repeated failures, new talent from outside was ignored. This changed when the new and current BAI president Himant Biswa Sarma took over in 2018. Now more players are given opportunities.

    Mulyo Handoyo
    did all of the above
    a)Raise skill levels to required international standards (Mulyo made it mandatory for all players to learn deception. Before this only players who learnt at other academies or coaches had this skill. This was not taught for young players who did all their training with the Gopichand Academy. PV Sindhu and Srikanth Kidambi struggled with deceptive players till 2017 because they wern't taught deception early. Saina, Kashyap learnt deception at Prakash Padukone Badminton Academy. Sai Praneeth learnt deception before joining Gopichand academy
    b) Supreme fitness levels (Mulyo changed the physical endurance levels and wanted supreme fitness levels throughout the year for all players and not just Olympic qualified players.
    c)Instil mental confidence in MS players (Mulyo was able to get the best out of Indian MS and showcase what they were capable of achieving. He left too soon and left a void in Indian MS. Until India finds another coach like him don't expect much from Indian MS. They have years of mental blocks.

    Agus Dwi Santoso has been with India longer than Mulyo Handoyo, he has taught them shot variations. But unless he can instil mental confidence there will only be the odd upset or rare title like Srikanth in 2014.

    Kim Ji Hyun was able to help Sindhu break her final jinx in 3 months of 1:1 coaching. She gave the biggest hint of 'Indian coach jealousy' as her reason for leaving. The only Indian coach who was in a tug of war with her in tournaments was Gopichand. Look at the 2019 WC final again of how both had to jostle to give tips to Sindhu. Similarly Gopichand was in a tug of war with Mulyo Handoyo in his last tournaments while giving tips to Srikanth. He was also seen sitting in some of Flandy Limpele's matches with Flandy looking uncomfortable. The loser was Indian badminton. If Gopichand hires a foreign coach he has to stay away from coaching players in tournaments. He can give all the advice and coaching at his academy and in private. He will anyway get the credit for raising the players to the required international standard. The foreign coaches wouldn't have got the same results if their level was below par.

    Tan Kim Her joined late 2015 - till March 2019
    Indian doubles were in poor condition when
    Tan Kim Her joined India. He had to build the doubles department from scratch. He was unable to produce results as the players were not upto the required international standards. The conspiracy theory is that Gopichand allowed his personal differences with Jwala Gutta and Prajakta Sawant to delay hiring a top level doubles coach till Jwala was well past her prime and nearing retirement. Gopichand has no excuse for not hiring a top level doubles coach earlier. Gopichand has been the longest serving Head coach since 2008. Flandy Limpele was able to get results with Satwik/Chirag because Tan Kim Her raised them to the required International standards in the 3 years he spent with India. Flandy added soft touches and instilled mental confidence in Satwik/Chirag.
    Mathias Boe was hired in March 2021 till now. Boe has introduced tactical badminton and we will see more results if he continues as coach.
     
    #4043 badmuse, Aug 1, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  4. Sumanth99

    Sumanth99 Regular Member

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    This OG must be a wake up call,
    - Restructure the organizational structure,
    - There should be more than one head coach,
    - Centralized national training facility for National level players in a quieter place (Pune etc) with all facilities.
    - Hire necessary coaches well a head.
    - Critical performance reviews and actions



    They should get Mulyo back, both he and Indian badminton will get benefitted.
     
  5. Sumanth99

    Sumanth99 Regular Member

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    The score is now 5-5, Nah we are not getting bronze this time.
     
  6. Sumanth99

    Sumanth99 Regular Member

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  7. Baddie lover

    Baddie lover Regular Member

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    Spoke too soon ? Lol
     
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  8. Sumanth99

    Sumanth99 Regular Member

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    Lol, you know I always play devils advocate :,)
     
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  9. arjevo

    arjevo Regular Member

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    Congratulations to PVS. Sadly I missed the whole match. :(
     
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  10. rajat_remar

    rajat_remar Regular Member

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    India now has a medal in all major tournaments (WC and OG) since 2011. AND 3 consecutive Olympiv podium finishes in WS.
     
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  11. arjevo

    arjevo Regular Member

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    This is so accurate and so well written.
     
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  12. Sumanth99

    Sumanth99 Regular Member

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    It sounded as if India was a powerful badminton nation with proper structures, lol we are not even close, well that is mostly due to our strong women.
     
  13. Baddie lover

    Baddie lover Regular Member

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    Wrong thread.
     
    #4053 Baddie lover, Aug 1, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  14. Sundis

    Sundis Regular Member

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    India should hire Jan O Jorgensen to coach the MS, gotta try something different. Hiring Boe to coach the MD was great.
     
  15. rajat_remar

    rajat_remar Regular Member

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    True almost half of them are from Sindhu alone.
    The bronze would definitely bring more attention to Badminton. Hope we get more structure in our player selection. There should be no dearth of funding.
     
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  16. Baddie lover

    Baddie lover Regular Member

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    Sundis, it's really a mystery to me why you disliked Jorgensen before (still, idk? ) but yeah I'm curious why ? Coz I've seen some of your posts before.
     
  17. Sundis

    Sundis Regular Member

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    I guess I was just immature before and there was no obvious reason for disliking him.
     
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  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Interesting to see that Gopichand did not travel to the Olympics and India had a mixed bag of results. Some good wins for Indian doubles but unable to progress out of the group. Men’s singles effort snuffed out early (player has documented fitness issues) and a bronze medal for women’s singles with an obviously delighted and passionate coach celebrating sindhu’s bronze medal.

    What will we see for future international tournaments? Gopichand still travelling regularly?
     
  19. arjevo

    arjevo Regular Member

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    I have a feeling he won't be travelling a lot for international tourneys much henceforth and rather coach and hone the skills of up and coming players from his academy. As always been the case, there's a big void. There's no one to follow on the footsteps of Sindhu, Saina is surely not done but she's way past of her prime. Indian Men's singles players are in some deep s**t. And when it comes to doubles only Chirag and Satvik are there. WD and XD doesn't really exist.

    I think our badminton players lack the team spirit. There's always some sort of internal rivalry going on, somebody doesn't want to practice with someone, somebody wants to train separately, etc etc and that's why we don't have many junior players successfully transition into good senior players. So much work needs to be done by the badminton fraternity.
     
  20. Baddie lover

    Baddie lover Regular Member

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    Actually I thought something more. Gopichand didn't go to Tokyo and for this, he gave the reason "Due to covid restrictions, there is cap on contingent so Agus, Park, Boe will accompany our players".

    Some months ago, there were reports of rift between Sindhu and Gopichand. Due to this , she went to Park for coaching.

    I'm assuming this might be another reason for Gopi not going there. But then he could have gone there and not coached Sindhu. I guess we'll never know.
     

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