How to beat Viktor?

Discussion in 'Denmark Professional Players' started by mohans, Sep 1, 2022.

  1. mohans

    mohans Regular Member

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    I’m sure this is something every MS player asking themselves at this moment. I thought of having BCers opinions on this.

    For starters, my observation is that there aren’t many players these days to challenge him at the front court. In the last 2-3 years or so, MS has been (in my opinion) mostly risk free badminton ie., much of the play happens in the couple feet back from the net to the back line. We don’t quite often see those net kissing tumbles, or those delightfully cross court net shots, or creative service returns. Secondly, I don’t feel many of his opponents play with varied pace during rallies like LCW, KM used to do VA back in 2017-19.

    PS- I’m neither a coach nor a pro. Just some general outsider observations


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  2. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    The answer is rather simple. You need to be at least at a comparable level as him in all aspects. Fitness, agility, shot precision and consistency, tactical awareness and the metal side of things. In my book, he currently scores somewhere between 8 and 10 out of 10 points in each category and he just doesn't seem to be prone to those "off-days" or small meltdowns anymore. Every time he shows up on court, he delivers. I mean, look at the score with which he's leading the World Rankings:
    upload_2022-9-2_8-25-37.png

    I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think this is pretty much the maximum points you can get out of 10 tournaments that are counted.

    As hard as this may be for his opponents, I just don't see any tactic, trick or any stroke of genius how an inferior player will be able to beat him on a normal day.
     
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  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Those points are like Momata in 2018.

    To have a chance against Viktor, you need be prepared to grind out the rallies and be able to play precisely steep and cut drops to his forehand forecourt.

    Danish style training is shorter more intense quality sessions. If you can prolong the rallies and make him work bending down and moving up, some holes might start to appear.

    If you see him start to look red in the face, he’s starting to feel the pace.
     
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  4. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Imho, Lin Dan and Lee CW at their best is a cut above Viktor Axelsen today, even Chen Long at his best (more in defense than attack) can handle VA.

    Don't forget, when LCW was around 35 in 2018 at the MAS Open, he bested the then 12/13 years younger Kento Momota who was on a 21-match winning streak as well as world champion a month or so later in August that year.

    As for Lin Dan, he wasn't granted a second wild card entry to the 2014 World championships , unlike the year before, who knows he might've captured his sixth world title , not unlikely as in that year he went on to beat the newly-minted World Champ Chen Long for gold at the Incheon Asian Games after taking out 31-year-old Lee CW (WR1?) in the semis.

    Suffice to say, Lin Dan's GOAT status was touted not only by his contemporaries but also by several past greats - this topic has been discussed elsewhere in this forum.

    So, without going into specifics (which I've humbly expressed my views and opinions elsewhere), if you can play like Lin Dan , Lee CW and Chen Long in their prime - that's how you beat Viktor nowadays.

    Also watched how Loh Kean Yew, Lakshya Sen (both of whom have beaten him recently), Lee Zii Jia (who pushed VA to the limit), and a couple of other lesser players who put up a decent or close fight against him - you can tell what's required to take on VA.

    Anyway, usually what happens in close proximity to our times have a greater impact on us than what occurred in years past unless you belong to or live in their respective eras and, therefore, can have a better perspective of things , let's not get carried away by Viktor's achievements. I say, it's still early days to pass final judgement, apart from the problematic nature of comparing players from different eras.

    By the way, I've also come across a certain coach or two whose names I don't recall now, that plainly pointed out that players like Momota and Viktor are fortunate to emerge near or in the twilight years of Lin Dan - Lee CW and even Chen Long's era or generation, or else where would these players be today?
     
  5. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    a wildcard can only be granted to a host country's player. 2013 wc was in guangzhou. 2014 wc in copenhagen can only grant a wildcard to a danish player.
     
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  6. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Thanks, I forgot about that (which I was aware of at that time). But, still, I can make the point that , if or as the host country has decided or is not going to make use of the wild card entitlement, why not BWF be flexible, bend or break the rule to award it to Lin Dan again?

    For what's the world championships without the defending champion in it? It's just a technicality that he was excluded , not anything to do with his capability or unwillingness to play. An exception can and should be made for automatic qualification of the defending champion.

    Ah, never mind, it's all water under the bridge now.
     
    #6 Justin L, Sep 4, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
  7. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    more like mud under the BWF. in other words all is normal.
     
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  8. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Let's see if we can steer this thread back from retired goats and weird BWF choices (which is their daily business, isn't it?) to good ol' Viktor '22.

    The almighty algorithm just washed this video into my feed:


    Interesting points and well presented and produced clip. I seriously wonder, why I haven't seen any of there videos yet.
     
  9. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    And this one



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  10. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Seriously, recently when he is not injured, his matches are soooo boring... due to the one sidedness.

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  11. mohans

    mohans Regular Member

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    Badminton insight YouTube channel is a great knowledge base for badminton. Both Greg and Jenny do a commendable job in providing insights like they do in this video. I’m a big fan of their videos.

    In this video clip, they carefully dissect many of Viktor’s current strengths/strategies. Like they explain in the video, VA sort of has a game strategy that is primarily built on keeping the opponent away from the net. Like I said earlier, he is currently world class in controlling the game that is played a couple feet away from the net to the back line. If you are gonna keep playing in that zone, he will be happy to hit a few hundreds of shuttles with you for the next couple days. That being said, how could his opponent can get the initiative at the net?

    I feel how SK played g2 in this match is essentially the strategy to score points against VA. (Yes, I said SK, but just a good patch of his play. He is a decent player you know )



    It all starts at service. What SK actually does is:

    During serve situations: If VA lifts the shuttle (which he doesn’t do much against SK respecting SK’s attack), he plays a disguised attack in the form of half smash/sliced drop to throw VA off guard with his defense, and then quickly rushes to the front court to take control of the net. Once he takes control of the net, based on how unstable VA at that point, he either plays a tighter straight/cross court net shot to set himself up for a kill, or a push into VA’s body inviting a week return in any form. If VA plays close to the net, he quickly moves forward to do a deceptive net return, which again sets him up for a kill. Since VA doesn’t usually do any deception in service returns, you can always beat him to speed in those situations.

    During serve return situations: Return close to the net with a little of deception (like turning the racket head last moment). This will make VA react a little slower, which will again let you take control the net, eventually score the winner.

    In short, dish VA with some unexpected service situations to create an opening to finish the point.

    I agree, these are some risk filled MD-type serve-situation strategies, that provide an opportunity to finish the point within 3-5 strokes. The point I’m trying to making is one needs to take these risks to shake VA, and get those 3-5 points lead. Once the lead is taken, with VA being visibly shaken, you need to start running a tight ship for the next few points,. This will make VA work extra hard to bridge the gap —-> invite errors from his racket —-> further extend the lead —-> game.

    Now let’s talk about the players who can do both these aspects. In all honesty, I can’t actually think of anyone who can do both in the current MS scene. (May be LCW, LD)

    These are the current players that, I think,are capable of doing one of those components,

    Serve situation advantage: SK, LKY, AA, ASG
    Steady ship: LZJ, LS, KV, CTC, JC, HSP

    (Didn’t include SYQ, since I couldn’t gauge his play level in the last 2 tournaments)


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  12. mohans

    mohans Regular Member

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    Apparently LKY read my blog here


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  13. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Also LKY is training with VA so he might have discovered VA's weakless and exposed it to the rest of us. VA will certainly try to fix it in the future though.

    The chess game continues.
     
  14. boon_keng

    boon_keng Regular Member

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    Today's French SS match, Gillian suggested the speed of the shuttle might be the determinant......faster shuttle adv lky, slower shuttle to VA.....

    Imo, Lky played good.... he's improved with the new coaches..... Looking forward to more with Lky.
     
  15. CalvinSantos

    CalvinSantos New Member

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    The dynamics of the game have shifted to a risk-free style. Miss the kisses on the grid and the varied pacing of players like LCW and KM. That's just an outsider's point of view.
     

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