How much is the difference between men and women players?

I didn't talk about players who play at a league where they don't belong to as an exception and just mentioned it. I understand you and it wasn't needed to mention. Sorry for my poor explanation. I'm just refering that league structure has a huge scattering. Even at same league the scattering between the relays can be huge. Maybe not in your big City like Berlin, where you have many players at a small area? To be a better help: IMO Bax is a better reference than league for a state and this was my explanation why leagues are a bad reference. And especially third world badminton countries like Germany are also a bad reference to discuss about a international scenario.

IMO people come from different areas, where leagues run different and are organized, they have different experiences than yourself, played different games, we have different rules for the league in Germany between the states. Also discussing in a foreign language...I think misunderstandings are normal under this circumstances. I apologize if I **** you up!

The main culprit for fights are IMO bad questions which can only make you to discuss about your guess without any reference or data. As long no female player played a serious game vs. a male player at international level, we have no base for a discussion.

OT: I think that female badminton don't look as entertaining and spetecular as male badminton, because the skills are in different areas which are not as obvious, but still there and powerful, just different. My 2 cents.

 

I opines that the difference between gameplay of a men and women increases with age and experience . Initially when both are small or are just starting to play badminton , there shall be less difference in the level , even in initial stage , a girl may defeat the boy . But this difference changes rapidly as both grows in age and gains experience . The boys , by their physical advantages over girls ( strenghth , speed etc.) gains an edge over girls even when the technique of both of them happens to be the same . In higher level of play , it seems to be very hard for women even to compete against the men but in lower grades , it can be imagined , may be in under 13 or under 9 . I have seen many matches between the girls and boys of 10-12 years in which there is healthy competition between both of them even girls thrashing their male counterparts comprehensively . But in higher level , it has not been seen .

 

Here in Sweden, female players can compete with men in tournaments. One of the reason being that, outside of the big citys, there are not a lot of elite competions and few participants in class A.
Having the following: D, C, B, A and Elite (my guess is 150 male elite players and 100-150 female). I have seen "weak" elite females crushing most of the field in male class B. In other words she was like a "weak" class A male.
I have also seen regular A-class females playing on par or slightly better than the class B males. I'm a bit surprised but it seems as it's no bigger difference than that - 1 class!

 

Do you mean that in Sweeden , women and men compete against each other almost in every tournament which is organised outside the big cities ? Here , no women can play against men in official tournaments . It can be seen only in practice sessions and some unofficial or friendly matches . Well , have you ever get a chance to play against a girl ? I am asking about it because in couple of occasions , I also have faced girls .

 

I have not met any females yet in competition, (not in my half of the draw) unfortunately but quite a few in training. I have met a former "weak" elite female and won most of the time.
I am sure she would have beaten me if she was more used to tournaments and hard training at the time.
Perhaps thats the case:
If female players, or for that matter youths and gifted kids, are in the midst of hard training and competing they can compete very well with men. I guess that if they relax or only play for leissure for a while perhaps they loose more "edge" than a male would. Perhaps grown males can compensate bad timing/technique with brute strength when pressed in backcourt or when smashing for example.
Rusty old men can often backhand clear with ease but I guess it's seldom seen being done by older lady. Young female players here are often very good at cover their backhand side with a good athletic overhead motion.

And yes it is quite common that females compete with us men here. Both in singles and in doubles. I have only heard positive things about it and I am very much in favour of it. It's tragic that they sometimes quit playing when they were entering the elite class because they would have to move to some big city to find competitions. Buy the way, I am really not that keen on the dicipline mixed doubles, for various reasons. It's quite fun to play and I think one can learn a lot from it.... but still... Thats pehaps for another thread.

 

I have played a lot against girls when I was small . In absense of interest of my friends in badminton, I used to play badminton with my sister and her friends regularly . Her friends also included some students of badminton academy . They all , whether academy goimg girls or ordinary girls used to defeat me . Once a girl claded in red top and blue jeans , I remember , defeated me 21-4 21-2 . I was also defeated by my sister one year younger than me in almost the same fashion (21-7 21-4 ,if I am not wrong ) . I was defeated by girls server years smaller than me many times. These all crushing defeats made me depressed . I was suggested some tricks and techniques, but all in vain . This scenario last for almost one year but gradually I noticed that my smashes , who were being returned earlier quite swiftly were earning me points . Then , gradually I started defeating them , even those who had joined academy and that also without any significant technical improvement in my game . After some fluctuations in my performance , I defeated them all without losing more than 6-7 points in a match which also includes a match in which I defeated a girl by 21-2 21-0.
After that I and my sister were admitted to an academy , I was suggested huge technical improvements but not my sister . My coach told me that she is technically far better than me . Then I observed that those girls whom I had defeated prior were also technically superior than me . Then I concluded that the reason behind my win were narural advantages , those violent smashes and speedy returns were not my brilliant play but my strength which is more in boys naturally .
I agree with you that if girls and young kids are conferred hard training and opportunities to compete men , then they will definitely be able to do so . In our academy, it is a formula to train girls by fixing their matches against boys of their age or smaller than them according to their ability . I have also played against girls in training and some of them really have given a tough fight to me and other boys and has also defeated us in some occassions .
Now , what do you think , was I true to perceive that my wins were only because of natural factors or I became trainned after facing them , that's why I was able to defeat them .

 

I have played a lot against girls when I was small . In absense of interest of my friends in badminton, I used to play badminton with my sister and her friends regularly . Her friends also included some students of badminton academy . They all , whether academy goimg girls or ordinary girls used to defeat me . Once a girl claded in red top and blue jeans , I remember , defeated me 21-4 21-2 . I was also defeated by my sister one year younger than me in almost the same fashion (21-7 21-4 ,if I am not wrong ) . These all defeats made me depressed . I was suggested some tricks and techniques, but all in vain . This scenario last for almost one year but gradually I noticed that my smashes , who were returned earlier quite swiftly were earning me points . Then , gradually I started defeating them , even those who had joined academy without any significant technical improvements in my game . After some fluctuations in my performance , I defeated them all without losing more than 6-7 points in a match which also includes a matc in which I defeated a girl by 21-1 21-3 .
After that I and my sister was admitted to an academy and I was suggested huge technical improvements but not my sister . My coach told me that she is technically far better than me . Then I observed that those girls whom I had defeated prior were also technically superior than me . Then I concluded that the reason behind my win were narural advantages , those violent smashes and speedy returns were not my brilliant play but my strength which is more in boys naturally .
I am agree with you that if girls and young kids are conferred hard training and opportunities to compete men , then they will definitely be able to do so . In our academy, it is a formula to train girls by fixing their matches against boys of their age or smaller than them according to their ability . I have also played against girls in training and some of them really have given a tough fight to me and other boys and has also defeated us in some occassions .

 

Oh it seems that some posts have been done more than one . Sorry for that .

 

This is very true! Guys get so depressed when a woman beats them (and I mean just a normal woman in club play, not elite level women.) I've had guys stop warm up early with me because it is clear my level is much better than them and they get depressed "losing" warm up so they stomp off depressed and find someone at a lower level to sooth their ego.

I'm a pretty strong women mentally and I don't care, but a few female friends will actually play less serious if they feel like their male opponent is getting upset. Kinda female conditioning I'm afraid. Although there are a few male players I will avoid playing because I know I can beat them easily and I know they can't handle losing to a girl very well. So to spare them I just avoid them (and they avoid me because they feel too much embarrassment.)

And again I'm talking about normal women in club play, not elite level women or play during a competition.

 

B

If you are trying to say that I was depressed because my sister , one year younger than me thrashed me badly by 21-7 21-4 or that girl claded in red top and blue jeans defeated me 21-4 21-2 or simply I was depressed because I was being defeated by girls , then you are wrong . I was depressed just because I was not playing better , and my gameplay was not improving despite of having a lot of practice . This is quite normal and would have also exist if I had played against boys and they also defeat me in the same fashion or even in a situation where I happened to be a girl and was getting defeated by boys . There was no harm in it because they deserved that victory because they were better . Also , as I have mentioned above that later on , I defeated them with more ease as it was very hard for them to score more than 6-7 points in a game . My sister helped me a lot in improving my game . Though she used to thrash me but she also helped with my gameplay and once when I defeated her by 21-3 21-2 ( if once again I am not wrong ) she was a little dissappointed initially because of her biggest defeat ever but later on was very happy to see her hard work bear fruits . Now I find nothing objectioable in getting defeated by girls nor defeating them .
And as you have mentioned that you use to defeat boys in warm up , it will be a very big thing if your age is more than 20 because it is quite rare that a girl defeats a boy in above 20 age groups . I have seen a lot of girls who initially defeat boys quite comprehensively but later on with the same level of training , they use to lag behind them and those boys use to defeat them later on with a great deal of ease.

 

On the other hand the woman can only win and the male only loose mental in such situations.

Man beats woman -> Guy can't be proud of his win, woman have the general excuse for beeing the weaker sex. "Oh look how we sweat...he needed to go hard...she really challenged him."
Woman beats man -> Other guys will make fun of him and everybody will say "What a loser hahahaha, vs. a girl" and woman will think "I'm so strong."

Regardless how the game goes out, the male will never get credits only the woman. Can you now understand how the depression come and why some males refuse to play woman? They will always be the ass.

 

Yaa , it's quite true . Boys are always at the receiving end whether they gets defeated or defeat a girl .

 

I don‘t get the problem here. If a female player defeats a male player who is really trying and not having a bad day she‘s just the better player. Why would that crush your ego, unless you are thinking that you - as a man - can beat all female players in the world? You just have to play against a female player several leagues higher than yours to get your ass kicked. Unless you are in the top leagues yourself, of course.

Why would you not want to play with female players that can actually challenge you and give you a great game? That‘s not a lose-lose situation! If there‘s no risk of losing the game, there‘s also no opportunity to improve.

 

Of course there is no problem in playing against female players but the thing is that they are always benefited by their gender which is considered weak by some people. If a girl defeats a boy by big margin , like 21-5 21-3 or like that , the boy is huimilated by the society which may include friends , companions and sometimes even family that it is even more than the appreciation given to that girl for her great performance.
In other situation . If a girl gives a hard fight to a boy but even then the boy defeats her , then also the boy gets negligible appreciation but the girl gets it in a huge amount .
In another situation, if a boy defeats a girl by a heavy margin as mentioned above , even then also he is asked that he is too harsh for girls and on the other hand, the girl gets the soft corner irrespective of her level and performance .
I am of 16 and once I defeated a girl whose level is much higher than me and was approximately 23 or 24 . We played two matches . In first match , I defeated her by 21-12 21-15 . In the second match, I defeated her too but this time , the score was 21-7 21-3 . But she was asked that I was able to defeat her just because I am a boy and I get nothing as appreciation but I had observed that I was playing well but she was not . She was struggling to get the cock on the court which would surely have marked her defeat if she was playing against a girl 3-4 years smaller than her . Her speed was OK
But this thing doesn't happen while playing against boys . If you play well , you will be encouraged and appreciated whether your opponent is younger or bigger than you .
May be the reason is some people considers girls very soft and weak but they are not much weak as they considers them to be . That's why they considers the boy who is defeated by a girl a foolish and weak and huimilates him . And that's why some boys doesn't like to play against the girls even when there exist an opportunity for him to improve and learn .

 

I get what you are saying, but there will always be players not giving proper credit where it's due. Doesn't matter if it's the "you just won because you are a man" you mentioned or something else. People will always find excuses why they lost. Other typical sayings are:
- you are just faster and younger
- you are just taller
- you are thinner
- whatever...

Of course those attributes will give you an advantage but it's by no means a guarantor for playing great.

One thing I really don't understand though: Women undoubtedly have the advantage of always having great(er) games, because they can just play with men and have a challenging game and grow, but they rarely get better over time. At least in the clubs I play at, it's what I noticed. I don't understand why, it's not purely the physical difference, surely...

 

BTW: I lost on Wednesday with a female playing doubles vs. a woman double in a tight 3 sets game. So I don't have a problem. The WD played a clever and tactical game. That's it, no excuse. It made me think about default structuring of the game for some situations. As long as everybody has respect for the opponent and club mates everything is fine.

You are right. As long as you play for your own improvements, have a thick skin and you have a supportive and friendly enviroment nothing will hurt you.

I know how poisonous and cruel people can be and can understand that some people who play for fun and want a time of joy don't want to feed such horrible people who make a tragic thing of it and laugh at you.

Have you never met such horrible people like this Club Win-Loss Newspaper guy who knows all games of everybody, makes stupid comments all the time on everybody and holds everybody small? The guy who pick always opponents to win and show off how great he is, but is just a mediocre player in total? This can be really annoying if you are not a strong personality and just want to have some good times during your recreation.

 

Fortunately I have never met a guy or girl like this. Some may make sarcastic comments once in a while, but it's just for fun and they usually don't really mean it. And like you said, people that do that are not really good players themselves, so who gives a damn about what they think.

 

I think it's main reason is physical differences between boys and girls . Initially when both starts playing together , a girl can defeat a boy comprehensively but as the time rolled by , the physical differences increases and the boy is able to defeat her easily .
As I have mentioned that I used to play against my sister and she use to thrash me . We have played hundreds of times and initially she defeated me in almost every match . When we played , we always noted the score in a diary and according to it , we have played 704 matches so far and the overall record is 574-130 in her favour . It looks very bad for me but once it was 124-0, 295-3 , 489-8 and 545-39 in her favour . Out of them , she defeated me by a score less than 21-4 about 128 times . This shows how dominant she was against me . On the other hand , after some time , I defeated her consecutively in 40 matches in which scoring more than 4-5 points in a game was the most trying ordeal for her . But when we were admitted in a academy , according to the coach , she was technically far better than me even at that time when I was defeating her with big margins . I gave this eerie detail just to point out that how much role physical differences play , that only physical differences was marking my wins .
But the physical differences are not the only thing , there are other things also . I have seen very few girls who starts training against boys . Out of them , very few continues their training against boys when they grow in age or find players of their own gender . But those who do so , get the better results but then also they can't outperform boys in most cases because even when they're technically superior than boys and are accustomed to playing with them , the physical differences again becomes the big difference .
And as you have truly mentioned that don't focus on what others say or whether they appreciate you or not , its quite right . I do not have any hunger for appreciation but at that time I had expected that because I defeated the player 8-9 years bigger than me and much higher than my level . I had also improved my play as earlier I also played a match with a player of same level who defeated me . I also improved against that girl whom I defeated twice . you can see that in one match I won by 21-12 21-15 and in the second match I defeated her by 21-3 in one game . . I think it is a great margin if you're playing against a player who is much bigger and experienced than you no matter what is his / her gender .