Gideon Marcus Fernaldi / Kevin Sanjaya Sukamuljo

Discussion in 'Indonesia Professional Players' started by Espírito Santo, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    An argument can be made for both, although I'm considering Fu HF as the best myself
     
  2. ericksakti

    ericksakti Regular Member

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    Well Fu Hai Feng is blessed in many things, extremely good badminton skill, and very handsome at the same time, he is like Cristiano Ronaldo, very talented and good looking hahaha, how the world is not fair :(
     
  3. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Unfortunately, Fu HF didnt win AsianGames and China Open ( big blooper ). He should have won AG, when considering at that point in time, there was a fit Boe & Mogensen not participating.
     
  4. ericksakti

    ericksakti Regular Member

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    Well actually FHF was almost indonesian because his grandfather moved to Indonesia but returned back to China, imagine the pair that could have been by having FHF at the back with Hendra Setiawan in front of the net :eek::eek::eek::eek:
     
  5. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Yeah, but he won 2 OG and 4WC Golds, which no one else did. So you can argue the other way around with all other candidates as well, which is why I specifically stated that it's a much more open discussion than in MS, where one person has done something no one else ever achieved. In MD it comes down to personal weighing of criteria and a bit to preference. I don't rate the AG nearly as high as the OG and significantly lower than the WC (especially in MD and MS, where DK always has a strong presence), so I consider Fu the best. Others may prefer Tony Gunawan, Hendra Setiawan, maybe Kim Ding Moon or Park Joo Bong.....however you will be hard pressed to make a valid argument for LYD whilst still giving any weight to the competitiveness and importance of the tournament, which was my original point
     
  6. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Having the best is in the end up to preference of individual fans. Because you were the one who said Kevin havent won WC. Its easy to point out what A or B hasnt won.

    So in the end everyone will have their biases. One day i hope Kevin can overtake LYD. Everyone can view their bests but FHF havent been as consistent, imo.
     
  7. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    You seem to value consistency at mediocre tournaments over winning big titles - a sentiment that is not shared by many. Most experts, pros, analysts,....will value big titles over number of titles, at least to a certain extent. You named the AG (arguably not even the 3rd biggest tournament in badminton) and the China Open (not one of the 5 most prestigious tournaments by any standard) as titles Fu didn't win. Great. Should I start listing obscure titles all the other candidates didn't win? Nobody won every single tournament, ever, and even that would be meaningless because no one cares about the lower level ones when talking about all-time greats.
    While KSS may eclipse LYD at some point (still some ways to go, imop), that alone will not mean he is in contention for GOAT, as LYD himself isn't. Both lack the major titles to make that claim, although KSS still has lots of chances to get them.


    Entirely different topic: interestingly, Setiawan holds a positive H2H against Gideon and KSS in all partnerships, and FHF seems to be the only one with a positive H2H against him over all partnerships (LYD is slightly negative overall). Wouldn't have thought that, especially not HS/MA 3-5 ZN/FHF.
    Apart from that, HS' H2H is intimidating. :D
     
  8. badito

    badito Regular Member

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    Yeah, I know that girl, and she was not in pelatnas anymore... . Kevin former XD partner.....

    Sent from my Redmi 5A using Tapatalk
     
  9. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    I think based on achievements alone you're not wrong and I wouldn't disagree. And it is obviously a good way to separate the best from the rest.

    But I do think there is much more than just achievements that defines the greatest players/athletes. For us fans of the sport, we know a lot more than the statisticians who simply look at the numbers. We know the circumstances in which the achievements were made, how they did it, what support did they got, what opposition they had, how difficult was their draw in the tournament, did they have personal issues at the time, was there a bad call that derailed them etc etc. Take the finals in the Malaysia Masters earlier this year where TTY was trailing CM 8-16 in the third set and still won. Strange things do happen!

    Fu is undoubtly one of the greats. But as a doubles player, he couldn't have achieved what he did without an equally good partner in CY and ZN, players he could connect with. Had he been unlucky to have a weaker partner in his time or one he simply could not gel with, who knows, we might not even be talking about him today.

    A classic example was Rio 16, I personally felt that LCW could have won gold if he had not faced LD in the semis which took so much out of him both mentally and physically, if CL had faced LD first it may have been a different story. Or how LYD/YYS basically succumbed to their own self-inflicted pressure when they were capable of beating pretty much any pairing at the time.

    I guess its a combination of luck, mental strength whether you are able to peak at the right time. Some may argue that these are prerequisites of a champion, others may feel there are some things you just cannot control and is down to fate.

    Drawing parallels with other sports, Formula 1 for example, Michael Schumacher has won the championship more than any other driver with 7 titles but very few who know the sport well would place him anywhere in their top 5 or 10 drivers of all time. He probably wouldn't even make my top 20! Whereas someone like Stirling Moss who never won a single Championship is considered by many as a better driver than Schumacher.










     
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  10. Woman.in.Red

    Woman.in.Red Regular Member

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    Talking about "youthful innocence" :D. I bet Kevin is not that innocent anymore :D

    We create our own happiness
     
  11. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    fans will 'if this' and 'if that' until they die. the athlete doesn't worry about the "if's" once the game/tournament is over. do you think lcw is thinking he'd be the goat if lin dan was never born?

    fans die. results live on.
    history remembers results.
     
  12. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    Results are meaningless without fans to appreciate them. And to appreciate something you need to know the story.

    Oh and my post was not about ifs and buts. It was about the turn of events and the reasons that led to the results.

    If history is as binary as you seem to believe, we would learn nothing.
     
  13. BojepJoe

    BojepJoe Regular Member

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    Well, Tony Gunawan won WC with Howard friggin Bach! no offense to him.

    So he won All England with two different partners (Candra and Halim). Won WC with two different partner (Halim and Bach). Won Indonesia a fourth consecutive Thomas Cup with yet another partner (Rexy). And an Olympic gold as well.
     
  14. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    Unfortunately not all reasons nor turn of events that led to the results are there for the public to know.
    History only acknowledged the winner and the loser in most cases.

    Like how Candra/Sigit had a big dispute the night before the Final WC 2003, which Sigit almost called it quit and didn't want to play in the final. After a long talk with the dismayed coaches, they reluctantly agreed to play in the final the next day and as the result, not surprisingly, they lost to their opponents in 3 games.
    I knew nothing about it, what is written in wikipedia or bwf profile page was that they lost in final WC 2003. No reasons given. I only found out about it recently after reading an article of an interview with Coach Herry.
     
  15. wade

    wade Regular Member

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    What happend to candra/sigit in 2003 ?
     
  16. yuquall

    yuquall Regular Member

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    According to the interview, Candra had been dissatisfied with Sigit's less motivation and lack of commitment in training. They had differences and Candra was considering to look for a new partner. Somehow Sigit found out about the news saying that Candra and Sigit would be separated after the WC just after winning the semifinal. Sigit got very furious, he thought the coaches were the ones who wanted to separated them and then went on to telling the coaches that he didn't want to play in the final. In fact, it was Candra who had the intention. In the end, the two coaches and two players had a long talk, found out what was the problem, though the players reluctantly agreed to play in the final they (not surprisingly) lost the match in 3 games.

    https://sport.detik.com/raket/d-395...dan-pahit-kejuaraan-dunia-2003-untuk-herry-ip
     
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  17. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    not always. For the sport you love and your favorite athletes, sure, I get it.

    Even regarding badminton, which I am passionate about, when I see way back that someone won the xyz tournament 8+ times in a row I don't always feel the need to learn the back story. The results speak for themselves.
    those 'turn of events' are the if's i'm talking about.
     
    #1777 samkool, Oct 22, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  18. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Never think WC is a Bigger tournament than AE and AG ( representing your country in MultiEvent just like OG ). Plus there we no MD that can trouble in minions from Europe this year so its just excuse if Danes didnt play (Might have been different in WS though). It's simply a rebranded tournament these days. I just count it as 1 title. Not even older than FrenchOpen let alone AE and it takes time to get that prestige.
     
  19. wade

    wade Regular Member

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    WC is definitely bigger than AE.
     
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  20. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    Not in terms of PrizeMoney. Not in terms of Prestige. Maybe its bigger, in terms of Hope.
     

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