Perhaps more recently manufactured frames of the same model is sturdier? Though the Cab21 is old I thought that 10% over the recommended max tension would be fine. Though I do have Pro Ace racquets strung to 26 and after 10 years still in good condition (ie no sinking). So now I wonder even if you keep to the recommended tension will sinking of the strings eventually start happening. Btw, it’s confusing the 30lbs on cp is different from a crank machine.
Not necessarily. Just look at all the sinking reports on JS12 and Arc11, even Duo10. Some frames are just made better than others.
How old are the rackets? For how long do you use this tension? 3U/4U? Real 31lbs? Which machine type (Crank, DW, ECP)? PS yes/no? How long does each job stay on the racket? These are many factors. Just because you are lucky and have no issues doesn't give you the opportunity to make general statements and tbh 1lbs over 30 to back up your statement is gone until you do the first hit. When I read "over 30 without an issue" I don't think just about 0.1lbs over or 1lbs over, to be clear.
As a general idea how long do people expect their rackets to last? I tend to get rid of them around the 3-4 month mark as a precautionary measure for example.
When I said over 30lbs I just meant anything from 30lbs and above. If you're saying it means 34, 35lbs then your previous post when you asked "have you seen a zf2 at 30lbs" would contradict that. Stringing is done by a yonex stringer with a PT8. He strings for internationals so it's not some half qualified lvl3 stringer. I've had them for 6 months and strings stay on til I break them. I used my previous racquets for 5yrs and intend to do so with these as well. I've also strung my new 88S and D at the same tension and will expect them to last years. Stringjobs are not luck and neither is a soft frame. Bring a JS12 to him and the frame will sink no matter how well the stringjob is done. Maybe you just need to find a better stringer.
At 30lbs racquets can survive years with a good stringer. It only becomes an issue when it goes to like 33+.
My Arc10's have lasted 8 years with BG80 @ 30 lbs and they were strung at 32 lbs around 6 motnhs ago and I haven't used them yet. My DZS's have lasted 6 months @ 31-33 lbs.
I string rackets and see more rackets than a "just owner" Have you seen your racket without grommets? Serious, 5 years over 30lbs will no racket survive without any scars due stringing and I change every grommet on each high tensions job except strips. That's totally bs regardless who is your stringer. IMO it is a bad attitude to use just an own experience to state general rules because you can't control all attributes and make them equal.
And all professional singles players go through 50 rackets and more per year because the clash often with their partners, right?
It wasn't all of them It's worth remembering they do hit harder, and they also train constantly throughout the week. It's different playing 8 hours a day to 8 hours a week like many of us.
I'm sorry that I don't preface every comment on forums with "from personal experience" or "in my opinion". It's an assumed fact that nobody can give a general statement about anything, so don't nitpick. If you're going to say "don't make generalised comments" then maybe you should take your previous post back. Can you show me evidence that "all" professional players go through 50 racquets a year? Have I ever said anything about scarring? I said some frames will not sink when gone above the recommended tensions. Who said they aren't affected by it? Scarring =/ sinking. Maybe instead of "totally BS" you should think about the fact that you just aren't as qualified as a proper yonex stringer on a PT8. Sorry to burst your bubble.
No, but this was not my point. To conclude something from just one person with 2 rackets is really meh. Some for some lucky people with non sinking Arc11, JS12, JS10, DUO10 and so on. This is the reason why a high number of data points with the option of eliminating other attributes is the way for making any statement. You made the following statement: So now you have me an "unqualified" stringer according to you who have seen sinking. So far so good. Now a different stringer, maybe also "unqualified" observed the same issue on the same racket model: We have now the case that 2 stringers from different countries, on different machines observed sinking issues on the ZFII. I can't say anything about Paul's stringing, but I string around 15-20 ZFII for players up to playing to Verbandsliga. So the number of rackets I have seen at 30 and above is bigger than yours. I can't say anything about Paul, but his number must be bigger than mine. Maybe @swsh want to share his experience with his ZFII LCW which he pushed over 30? You said following: You didn't defined "issue", so maybe we have here a simple misunderstanding. I have the impression as an "unqualified" stringer that every racket can take 30lbs, but it will weaken the frame and make it a time bomb. I'm not just talking about sinking. I will harm any racket over time when the load is high. This is my point, and it is dangerous to give people the feel that over 30lbs is for some rackets not an issue. I expect a lifetime of a racket over 30 lbs with tearing down of 1 year, maybe 2, maybe 6 month, but not 5 years. Depending on the area of over 30. I had cases that rackets just survived 34 lbs a few times. Indeed you are right that the ZFII is one of the stronger frames, but saying something don't include cases where people bring rackets to an unqualified stringer like "me". We have discussed the routines of some Yonex stringers here and a bunch of people didn't agree with their routine, because quality is often not possible at speed. There are a few exceptions. I had the chance to get a Yonex certificate 3 years ago at a GPG torunament, but to burst your bubble of the superhuman Yonex stringers: it's just a course where you string rackets under the eyes of a Yonex Stringer to prevent bigger errors and following the YY pattern. You also learn some hints to speed up and the basics, but thats it. Anything else you will learn over time with experience. So it was to me a waste of time for a simple piece of paper. I got these infos when I talked with an official Yonex Stringer. He have same friends. Maybe instead of beeing fixed on certificates and machines, you should just think about the fact that you just have been lucky like the small percentage of people who never had issues on Arc11, JS12, JS10, NR800 and so on and that other people have seen a larger number of the same model at high tensions than your 2 rackets in the bag to give a better impression due the mass of a specific model.
I probably shouldn't tbh. Both ZFII LCW and normal ZFII (jan or feb this year) were running 35 crosses in the end which will probably not help as my data would be useless since there was already a counter argument made against it earlier heh.
You really are terrible at arguing you know that? I won't waste my time after this so say what you will. Your initial argument was that I shouldn't make general statements based off personal experience. The truth is everyone's comments on every forum ever is based off personal experience. Hence, I don't write "from personal experience" at the start of every post. It is assumed. Sure, I don't have data to back up that in general zf2 has no issues past 30lbs, but since I have had numerous racquets without wide ranging reports of sinking over 30lbs for months if not years without sinking, I'm confident to say that the widely known stronger frames are fine at 30lbs. Your previous post said a racquet at 30lbs will only survive for two weeks, and now you're saying they survive for a maximum of 1yr. Guess what? These are your opinions as well. Did you know that the number of zf2 racquets you've seen is hardly the majority on the planet? Have you ever studied statistics? In your previous post you also made the vast sweeping statement that *all* professionals go through 50 racquets a year, and where did you get this data from? Again, you keep falling into your own argument about not making general statements. The stringer I go to also has 20yrs of experience, and I don't believe in luck when I've had no issues for years. Instead of one example, from your personal experience, you bring one more, from Paul, because two examples suddenly make it true? When I said zf2 has no issues, I was referring to no sinking issues. It's all within context so it's not my fault you didn't understand it. Have you ever thought about where those guys string besides going to you? I doubt they all string from you constantly. How do you know the sinking could not be caused by some other bad stringer? There are so many variables, that it's funny you simply put it down to the frame. How do you know that you're doing everything the best way possible with your stringing? I never focused on pieces of paper, but certificates mean more than you think, and why is PT8 so expensive, if it's the same as your average bedroom stringing machine?
Instead of personally attacking me several times, questioning the loyality of my clients and twisting my words and so on you just have to accept that rackets at high tensions will getting weaken due the load. My intial start was that you just need to be careful when you shout out into the world that a racket is taking X lbs without issues based on just your own rackets. Anything else is not relevant for this thread. So please re-read what I have said. Instead of attacking me personal at been bad at arguing, stringing and so on and making me justify myself several times (I'm sorry that my english is not well, but I try my best), I invite you to re-read what was the core of the dicussion. You never answer my initial questions to make clear all attributes of your rackets...so I'm done here as well. To be on-topic on the thread that stringing outside the recommended tension of the racket is always a risk. Sometimes more, sometimes less depending how much you add. 1lbs might be tolerable, 4lbs might be a different story. Your chances become better with a good stringer, regular grommet service, thicker strings and so on, but always take note that a higher load on you racket will weaken your frame over time and can limit the lifetime of the frame. Frequent stringing over the limited tension can harm the racket and weaken it. There might be exceptions and lucky guys, but always have on your mind that you risking something. FME thinner strings cut at higher tensions more easy through grommets and frames. I don't have any scintific background for it, but I guess that the pressure on a smaller area is the culprit for it.
Guys, please stop we all that personal bickering. All the things that are stated in here are based on personal experiences and conclusions only, so what's the point in arguing about it? My opinion about the machine being a major factor when it comes to sinking grommet holes is, that in theory, it shouldn't be a crucial factor at all. The sinking is caused by the load that is applied to the grommet and the frame beneath it by the string which is pulled over the edge of the grommet. That principle is the same regardless if it's a $400 PS3600 or a $10,000+ PT8. None of the differences in build quality, supports, clamps, bases or tensioning system is able to change that load in any way if you keep the tension equal. The question I'm asking myself is, what bad stringing practises can worsen the issue at all? Bad mounting of the frame? Overpulling? Missing to do regular grommet replacements? The thinner the string, the smaller the contact surface with the frame and hence the higher the load per area in the contact area. And along with that, the higher the risk of the frame caving in. So yeah, using thicker strings are supposed to reduce the risk of sinking holes. Question is if it will be enough to prevent it completely or if it only increases the number of jobs until the inevitable happens anyway. And that's the point where we, again, don't have any bulletproof data.
I think it's always a case of when. Whenever movement is involved to any capacity, there is always a point of failure. I think N90s, ZF2, and heavy training rackets will all eventually have a point of failure when restrung, just like FBs, GlanZ etc. do. Any tension that creates movement creates a point of failure. On most frames, that point of movement is below 20lbs of tension, so it's always a case of when and not if. But that when might be completely inconsequentially long, who cares if it fails after 60 years right? Wooden rackets have survived that long, strung, and kept on display. Some rackets happen to be more susceptible to these issues, rackets with sinking for example.
