Events US has never won.

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by kwun, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    quite decently written piece though it focuses more on TT than badminton:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympic-events-the-us-has-never-won.html

    The dominance of the United States for much of modern Olympic Games history has continued unabated, with Americans enjoying some level of success in virtually every sporting discipline.
    Yet there are three events coming up in London this summer where the U.S. has drawn a complete blank, with no medals won, by men or women, in any Olympics. Ever.
    While American athletes have been largely unrivalled on the track, in the pool and on the basketball court, the Star Spangled Banner has never been hoisted to celebrate overall glory or even a top three finish in badminton, table tennis or handball.
    [ Photos: Top Olympic events the U.S. has never won ]
    Barring a major upset with paddle or shuttlecock, that barren run is likely to continue in 2012. The U.S. has solid teams competing in table tennis and badminton, but the almighty Asian countries, led by China, are expected to fill up the medal positions.
    As for handball, neither the U.S. men’s or women’s teams will be competing, having been eliminated in regional qualifying.
    So why has a nation of 300 million people been unable to create champions, or even a bronze medalist, in those sports when it has proven so successful elsewhere? Most will point to social factors; table tennis and badminton are largely – and perhaps unfairly – seen as recreational sports in this country.[​IMG]Timothy Wang is the U.S.' sole table tennis representative in London.
    The Olympic version of handball, a team sport played with a mini-version of a soccer ball and netted goals, is virtually unknown in the U.S., with most Americans identifying the name handball with the park game of walls and a ball struck with an open palm.
    “A lot of it is cultural,” said Bill Mallon, past president and co-founder of the International Society of Olympic Historians. “There are some sports that are barely played in America. But things can change quickly. We had hardly any tradition in volleyball some years ago, but now the U.S. is considered a power.
    “Table tennis and badminton came into the Games in 1988 and 1992 respectively, so they haven’t been around so long and the Asian countries are completely dominant. If the United States dominated a sport in the same way that China has dominated table tennis they would kick it out of the Olympics. That is what they did with softball, and what they are talking about doing in the Winter Olympics with women’s [ice] hockey.”
    [ Video: U.S. Olympian gives table tennis tips ]
    Elite level sports can operate in cycles, however, and patterns of success can alter quickly. Until the retirement of Greg Louganis after Seoul 1988, Americans enjoyed a glut of gold medals in Olympic diving, but since then China has shut them out.
    Hope, therefore, is not lost for aspiring badminton, table tennis and handball hopefuls in America, but it may take some initial success to spark a boom in popularity and generate the requisite participation numbers for future improvement.
    [ Photos: Yahoo! Sports goes behind-the-scenes at the Olympics ]
    “If you get one person [to] break through, people will watch them on television and be inspired to take up the game themselves,” said Mallon. “Some of them will come through and hopefully become champions.”
    In many sports, the U.S. may hold a competitive advantage, with some of the best training facilities and competitions taking place on American soil, and the college system providing an outstanding breeding ground.
    In others, not so much.
    “It is difficult,” said Timothy Wang, the U.S.’ only male table tennis representative in London. “The players in Europe and Asia have more opportunities for world class training, tournaments and leagues to play in. There are extra challenges if you are an American player, but if you work hard and make sacrifices you can be successful.”
    Perhaps, as Bill Mallon suggests, what is needed is for some of America’s physical specimens from more traditional sports to shift their focus to Olympic pursuits.
    “When you have so many people and so many good athletes the possibilities are endless,” Mallon said. “If the U.S. took some of its second-tier basketball players and started training them at handball I would think they could do very well.”
     
  2. kenjai7373

    kenjai7373 Regular Member

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    dont think americans care for those sports. even with us women soccer winning numerous world cups, its domestic league folded 2 times already.
     
  3. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    badminton event could be outta the OG by 2020..(recalled an article/discussion mentioning abt that somewhere in BC for lack of support?)..
     
  4. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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  5. SolsticeOfLight

    SolsticeOfLight Regular Member

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    I mentioned the olympics to an american friend, and they got really confused ... Turns out they care zip for the "Summer" olympics, and the (winter) olympics is far more important :p
     
  6. repentedboy

    repentedboy Regular Member

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    USA is not dominant in Olympics. They are dominant in CERTAIN sports because IOC ridiculously came up with so many stupid categories under one sports.

    For example, swimming has too many silly events which can actually be reduced to one.

    100 m butterfly
    150 m butterfly
    200 m butterfly
    400 m butterly
    the same goes to freestyles, backstroke, frogstroke whatever.

    USA's large percentage of the gold is won in swimming categories as if the IOC designed them intentionally for USA to top the group as always, leaving other countries to work extremely hard in other events to beat them in the medal tally. To me, USA is full of controversies and biases.

    They think they can do whatever they want with the super power status they hold.

    They are not so dominating in other sports.
     
  7. drquick

    drquick Regular Member

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    I don't know your source but according to wikipedia, here is the list swimming events at Beijing Olympic.

    Freestyle
    50 m men women
    100 m men women
    200 m men women
    400 m men women
    800 m women
    1500 m men
    Backstroke
    100 m men women
    200 m men women
    Breaststroke
    100 m men women
    200 m men women
    Butterfly
    100 m men women
    200 m men women
    Individual medley
    200 m men women
    400 m men women
    Freestyle relay
    4×100 m men women
    4×200 m men women
    Medley relay
    4×100 m men women
    Marathon
    10 km men women

    And here is the medal table

    Rank Nation Gold Silver Bronze Total
    1 United States (USA) 12 9 10 31
    2 Australia (AUS) 6 6 8 20
    3 Great Britain (GBR) 2 2 2 6
    4 Japan (JPN) 2 0 3 5
    5 Germany (GER) 2 0 1 3
    6 Netherlands (NED) 2 0 0 2
    7 China (CHN) 1 3 2 6
    8 Zimbabwe (ZIM) 1 3 0 4
    9 France (FRA) 1 2 3 6
    10 Russia (RUS) 1 1 2 4
    11 Italy (ITA) 1 1 0 2
    South Korea (KOR) 1 1 0 2
    13 Brazil (BRA) 1 0 1 2
    14 Tunisia (TUN) 1 0 0 1
    15 Hungary (HUN) 0 3 0 3
    16 Norway (NOR) 0 1 1 2
    17 Slovenia (SLO) 0 1 0 1
    Serbia (SRB) 0 1 0 1
    19 Austria (AUT) 0 0 1 1
    Canada (CAN) 0 0 1 1
    Denmark (DEN) 0 0 1 1
    Total 34 34 36 104

    When CHN dominant in badminton we say that it's the other countries job to catch up, but how come America should be blame for dominating the swimming ??
     
  8. SolsticeOfLight

    SolsticeOfLight Regular Member

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    It's not blaming America; it's being confounded at the fact that 1 person can get 8 golds in a single olympics, whilst a badmintonner will have to play at olympic level for 13 years to match it.
     
  9. repentedboy

    repentedboy Regular Member

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    Why not badminton have the same thing as well ?

    MS
    WS
    MD
    WD
    XD
    Mixed Team Events
    Male team event
    Female Team Event

    Swimming still retains soo many events because USA will lose its dominance if IOC changed the ruling.

    It's crystal clear fact that Olympics is designed to be biased in favour of the USA.
     
  10. drquick

    drquick Regular Member

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    Well, I think that's the previlage for athletes who compete in the events like Athletic, gymnastic, swimming.
    And it's just simply that Michael Phelps is an extraordinary swimmer. It's not easy to be master in the freestyle, butterfly and medley event like he do and plus he is "lucky" to have good teamate so he can got 3 gold from team events.
    Maybe if the badminton become more popular the team men, women, and mix team events can be include to the olympics so shuttlers have much more opportunity to get multiple golds in single olympics :p
     
  11. Fidget

    Fidget Regular Member

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    You're right. Maybe a badminton gold medal should be awarded each for winning a 1-game match, a 2 out-of 3, 3/5, 5/7. :rolleyes:
     
  12. drquick

    drquick Regular Member

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    Well, it's not my intention to pick at the american side, I just couldn't agree with your state of mind.
    Even without swimming events the american will still hold on 2nd position at the last 2008 Olympic.

    2. USA : 36 golds (they still have 24 golds without golds from swimming)
    3. RUS : 23 golds

    I don't think there's any evidences that the USA force IOC or FINA to maintain the number of events, neither that olympics is designed to be biased in favour of the USA. If this true then we won't see badminton and table tennis play in London because it's clear that these two events are the Gold mining for their main competitor CHN.
     
  13. repentedboy

    repentedboy Regular Member

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    Regardless, you cannot hide the fact that USA's main gold mine comes from Swimming with Phelps collecting gold medals from too many ridiculous events. How does that justify the fairness in the Olympics ?

    If Phelps is the clear cut winner in 400 m race, he surely has almost 100 percent possibility of repeating the same result in the 50m, 100m, 200m and 250m. Any logical person can think this is completely silly ruling by FINA and it seems favourable for USA to increase their medal. It's actually so cheap.

    It's obviously awarding the athlete the opportunity to win more than one gold medal by repeating the same activity and performance only with a slight tweak in the pool distance.

    In the past, USA is always one of the countries that never fails to escape the circle of medal and dispute controversies when it comes to gold medal matches. Drugs, judge's favouritism of the USA... till now they are still not resolved by IOC controlled by the US.

    Other countries like Australia, Russia, China and Great Britain had to rely on every sport possible to deny USA.
     
  14. drquick

    drquick Regular Member

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    My dear friend, fact on the pool was contradictaly with your statement.
    The freestyle events (50, 100, 200, 400) won by 4 differents swimmer and Phelps only won on 200m event. The others individual gold medals he got in 2 differents style (butterfly 100 & 200, medley 200 & 400)
    As I said his ability to master in 3 different style is the reason for his achievement. Almost none beside him could do this before and probably in the later. So no reason just because of one Michael Phelps FINA or IOC would cut the number of events in swimming. The same with the tracks event in athletic (100m, 200m, 400m)
    And isn't CHN has pass USA already in the last olympic ??
     
  15. Fidget

    Fidget Regular Member

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    Regardless of the swimming controversy you folks have going on, there is no doubt that the Olympics is a fabrication of the Western world and very much favours them. It was set up by Europeans and gets the huge majority of its money from European sponsors.

    So it should be no surprise that the sports they choose to have are slanted towards the West. Sure there are sports that are global. And some sports, like running, can produce heros from any part of the planet. But competitive trampoline, BMX biking and equestrian events are probably not globally popular outside the West.

    Which brings me to this point: Why do we care so much about Olympic badminton? For national supremacy, the Thomas/Uber cups seem more to the point.
     
  16. drquick

    drquick Regular Member

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    That's the impact of the sports as industry :)
    Maybe because the olympic consider as the highest achievement of an athlete individually
     
  17. repentedboy

    repentedboy Regular Member

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    I never cared so much about Olympics badminton to be perfectly honest because I believe there other events that are as or even more important than this event.

    I wholeheartedly support China to do well in badminton because some quarters (from the soreloser category) will use the opportunity to belittle Chinese badminton if they fail to do well in London. Other than that, I do not see what's so big deal how winning an Olympic gold defines how great the player is apart from that player making the country proud by making significant increase to the Medal Table.

    As an avid football fan, I still prefer to watch the World Cup and Euro Cup because they are the genuine major tournaments that reveal who is the best and who is not; not Olympics. Football is the most ridiculous event in Olympics and in fact they destroy the true spirit of the game by setting up ******** rules like allowing only three over-aged players to compete in the team to give other teams some competitive edge. To me that's just a plain excuse to prevent certain powerhouse like Brazil and Italy from stealing the limelight. Another desperate American ploy.


    To add on to what i said earlier about greatness, from my perspective Lin Dan for example did win the gold medal to make his country China proud but that alone does not show he is a great player. The following events later on justified how great he is in Thomas Cup, All England and last but not least the World Championship.

    The Olympic Gold Medal is only valuable as an object used to compare the standings in medal table other than that in badminton terms, it is just a void object if you fail to justify that in later tournaments.

    Ji Xinpeng is the best example followed by many other badminton players.

    In badminton context, I say the same for Thomas Cup and World Championships >> Olympic badminton
     
    #17 repentedboy, Jul 15, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  18. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    :eek:..Actually if one checks and studies the history of Swimming in the OG, yes, it was basically started by the Europeans (NOT the Aussies nor the Americans) & quite a lot of the other events were already established.
    In the earlier history of OG, the Brits won quite a bit and dominated the Swimming sport.
    As it continued, eventually the Americans and Aussies dominated the sport til the present day.
    The Americans basically started to dominate the event in the 1920 OG.
    But The 50mm event actually was started in 1988 (it was tried out in 1904), and believe it or not, since it was officially started in 1988, the U.S. has only won 3 out of the 6 times (Men's) and only once out of 6 times (Women's).

    So, going back to the mini-argument of why Americans suddenly can dominate the Swimming sport, it's sort of similar to what CHN team has done over the last decade or so in badminton (whilst quite a lot of the major individual & team championship badminton events were started/originated not by CHN)..
    Simply, both CHN and the U.S. took over and started to dominate each sport and they rightfully should be commended for their achievements..
     
    #18 ctjcad, Jul 15, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  19. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    The reason why the Olympics hold that special treatment, from so many people, is simply because of its "rarity", as there's no other event in badminton which is played every 4 yrs.
    Same like the World Cup in futbol which is played every four yrs; adding the Olympics to the mix is probably a bit overkill.

    I would concur the T&UC and WC should be amongst the major events in badminton, but i would also add the SC (team event ) & AE to the mix..
    To an extent, i think badminton would do fine without the Olympics (if the IOC decides to shut it down in the future)..
     
  20. Qidong

    Qidong Regular Member

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    The medal counts is unfair. Like Phelp swam 3 or 4 times in 200 IM, and he got a medal. Team sport like basketball and soccer, a whole team of over 12 or 20 people played way more than 3 or 4 matches, and ended up with only 1 medal.
     

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