On a slightly different angle, I can't stop but laugh at how silly and egoistic Li Yongbo is- please read bold below (3rd and 4th last para). He must have thought that he is the real star of AE05! --------------------------------------------------- March 14, 2005 BADMINTON Chen upsets good friend Lin in final Winner outplays error-prone world No. 1 to regain title he won in 2002 BIRMINGHAM - WORLD No 1 Lin Dan lost his title at the All-England badminton championships when he was beaten in the final by Chen Hong, his close friend from the same province of Fujian. Lin looked well on course to atone for his startling first-round failure in the Olympics when he won a relaxed and skilful first game, but unaccountably fell apart after that to lose 15-8, 5-15, 2-15. Suddenly, mistakes flowed from his racket and Chen hurried to 7-2 and then take the second game in only 15 more minutes. The third game was a rout as Lin, who may have been suffering from knee problems, played well below par. Chen also found increasing opportunities for his famous smash, hitting the deck from a great height more and more often and hurtling to victory in a disappointingly one-sided third game. It meant that Chen, who had reached his third All-England final in four years, regained the title he won with a far more spectacular performance in the 2002 final. 'I feel even more excited than when I won it last time,' said Chen, who only woke up two hours before the final and had no time to practise. 'I feel it is a new era for me. I am mentally stronger than before. 'I feel that we are equally strong players and I won because I am a little bit stronger mentally today. I felt that Lin Dan also wanted it badly but that I had the upper hand.' Despite that, there were critics who thought the contest lacked sparkle. Chinese players are reputed to play exhibition-style matches against each other on occasions, and Chen was asked whether it was difficult to play a friend. 'Because we are good friends we are happy with each other whoever wins, but we don't wish each other success before we play,' he said. 'If we do that, we will not be very successful players! 'Although we are good friends I think that deep down you always want yourself to win. Success comes with hard work and dedication.' As a mark of respect, Chen did not want to start the interview until Chinese head coach Li Yongbo had been allowed to come and sit down. Instead, Li made a mild protest by refusing to come for an interview, walking out of the room and saying that no one had asked him any questions during the short interview a few minutes earlier with the loser. China were already sure of winning three of the five titles, having supplied both finalists in the women's singles and doubles as well. Later China became certain of four titles when Cai Yun and Fu Haifeng won the men's doubles in straight games against Denmark's world champions Lars Paaske and Jonas Rasmussen. -- AFP
1. you see what 'press' can do - somebody wrote something out there and you tend to believe it. 2. could it be translator problem? misunderstandings? culture differences? 3. i don't think lyb is a loser like that.
you're right. the last thing we need in a miscommunication is someone to fan the fire and make matters worse. LYB does not project to be a whiner to me.
It is not suprising at all as LYB is well-known for such antics. It has been reported on several ocassions that he refused to answer questions from non-Chinese reporters at press conferences.
There, at last somebody provides a game analysis argumenting for why Chen Hong won. You have several good points there. I am not sure you explain the big loss margin, though. I really must make it clear that I am not in any way trying to take away the victory from Chen Hong. I have seen him in his previous heydays, and I know what a formidable player he is. I am NOT surprised that it was he who brought down Lin Dan. So again, the question is not "how could Chen Hong beat Lin Dan", but "how could Chen Hong beat Lin Dan by 23 points in the last two games?" If it hadn't been for that 1st game win, nobody would have thought twice about it. Chen Hong has been, well... erratic, during the last years, while Lin Dan has proved himself very reliable. As Cooler said, the wide point margin raises speculation. And we're allowed to speculate in this forum. In any case, it was a remarkable result, and a remarkable win for Chen Hong.
Mag says I did not explain the 15-5 15-2 score. Lin lost 15-5 and 15-2 if you just count 2-3 points for each of the kinds of errors I listed. I pointed out that LD got very few serves and whenever Chen got the serve he took several points. I just started to feel LD's repeated errors was like a computer locked the stroke into his head and each time he raised his arm the same stroke and error was played. It was like the 5 smashes Fu hit into Paaske's body in game 1 + 3 winners into the ground. When you are playing badly and are not a rallying type but rather want to hustle the opponent into abject despair (like Lin) then you keep trying your killer strokes but they are not working at all. In Set 3, LD was 1-10 in a few minutes. Suddenly Chen was at set or match point. LD blitzed WCH 15-1. Why did no one say it is a fix, injury or something wrong? So WCH can lose 15-1 but LD cannot lose15-5 or 15-2? Is it because on the other side is another top Chinese player or specifically it was ChenH who's lately been erratic? Well that is all speculation - it just happened. Remember 11-0 for Camila from GongZC at the 2000 Olympics? Of all people Camila, who had the best record of any non-Chinese after Susi, against the Chinese, and the O' is the last place she would want to be humiliated like that. But she was. In set 2 of the WS, Xie went up 8-1 before Zhang tried to stop the headlong rush. In the MD, Cai-Fu were 9-1 (?)up before the Danes stemmed the haemorage. Unlikely, but facts. So with LD's loss by a huge margin. Don't need mirrors or tricks. Just ChenH in and LD off form. Let's see if LD will ever reach 4 AE F's like ChenH. Y
I watched the 2000 Olympics WS final. Camilla was playing very well in the beginning but somehow GongZC returned all her shots back and frustrated Camilla, and ended up Camilla losing points by making mistakes. In the 2nd set, I think Camilla gave up because she was playing her best game but still felt no chance of beating GongZC. I didn't watch the AE MS final. Could it be the case of the third game.
LD is a very strong person mentally, with high confidence, but actually lacking in Skills and techniques. Lin is a quick nimble athlete. CH is a person with arguably technically the best strokes and footwork of any player around. CH is a fast, powerful athlete. He lacks self confidence, and perhaps some mental strength. (Check out this brilliant thread: http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1592&highlight=chen+hong+confidence ) They are basically completley different. But they had the same results in majors before this 1AE each. Lin has been around for about 3 years now, chen maybe a few more, but not that many. What I am trying to say is that lin is not unbeatable at all, and when he is pushed he can lose. Chen hong played a perfect game against him, retrieved his attacks, and stung him with counter attacks rather than his more usual all out attack. This made Lin dan lose his confidence, and without his confidence Lin is a very ordinary player (sounds harsh, but is true). Time is on his side, and if he can improve on his weaknesses like Chen has, then he can be great. But Confidence is temproary, once a few defeats fall it can all go. Chen hong has class, and this can give him confidence. Personally I hope chen hong gets what he wants (A WC/OG title) as I believe he has worked hard to improve his mind set and defence. If lin dan improves his skills, and realises he cannot be so confident all the time, and it takes hard work, then he will get what he deserves too. With regards to this AE final, he was beaten fair and square, as Chen hong took away his best weapon-confidence. and without that confidence he didn't know what to do.
Don't even try to bring Camilla into this. She has produced some of the strangest point distributions in the history of badminton, all due to her "special" mentality. You can't compare Lin Dan to Camilla psychologically. Neither is it fair to compare Lin Dan to WCH, as nobody raises an eyebrow anymore if WCH gets whopped by a qualification player. Sure, he still has it in him, but he seldom brings it out. Lin Dan, however, only lost 4 matches last year. And the fact that the match is between two Chinese players does have a lot to do with it, yes. It won't matter how much LYB says "we don't do that anymore" -- the suspicion that the players didn't try their best will always be there. This beast was created by LYB, thank you very much, now we see the consequences. Until this final, Lin Dan has not struck me as a particularly psychologically weak player. He has lost games big before (although never this big) and yet been able to come back and win. Well, I buy your (and James') match analysis, so perhaps it is just time to revise that opinion! Regarding Lin Dan's future, I am sure he has the capacity to reach four AE finals -- he's already been in two. However, he doesn't have too much time, as his taxing playing style will no doubt shorten his career... By the way, when was the last time we had an in-depth match analysis thread like this one? Thank you everybody for your contributions!
Hmm I dont think Chen Hong has the best technique. I think he is a master in power and footwork but I would rate Gade and Taufik to be the best technical players around. Lin Dan's technic is also quite good and he is a master in offensive and defensive play. Without his technique he wouldnt be world nr 1
i don't know much about technique myself, but surely chen hong gets his power from good technique? Gade and taufik for sure have more variety and more of a "rallying" (compared to CH anyway) style, but is that down to technique, or just their best style which suits their physique? intresting the 3 names mentioned in the same sentence(s) as best technique are all mentally a bit suspect (not all the time of course)
There is another thread for the best technique discussion here: http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20750
Match fixing? I did not watch the MS final. I did watch MS Semifinal and WS Final. In my view, I do not agree both matches were fixed. In WS final, to say that Zhang gave way for XXF is equally unfair to both. XXF was at rather high ranking prior to Athens. She was excluded from the Athens due to quota set and too many good WS player in China. The fact XXF had won 6 titles back to back after Athens imply that she had improved a lot when most of the top WS player compete in Athens and do not forget that Mia Audina (Athens WS Silver Medalist) lost to her in Semifinal in two sets too. Would anyone suggest that Mia Audina also gave way for XXF? I believe at age 30, Zhang would eager to add another major title to her collection since AE is the only one she fall short. Some people may be discounting the fact that Zhang was lack of practice after Athens due to celebration and her wedding. This can be seen in the preliminary round as well where Zhang was forced to play 3 sets by relatively lower rank player. As for the MS final, I have expected the outcome after watching the semifinal match between Lin Dan and Wong CH. There are several occasions that Lin Dan did not chase for the shuttle cock and some signs that he did not want to aggravate his injury. That is why I expect Chen Hong to win in the final. Besides, would anyone suggest a match fixing in Athens that Lin Dan lost in first round? In the competitive MS, to say that match fixing is done in order to secure a better seeding in the coming competition simply doesn’t make sense. Match fixing in order to get a better seeding only has an effect on average player like you and me. It is useless for a strong player like those in the top 20 in world ranking. No one has clear advantage against the other in the top 10(20).
just watched the AE MS final...here's my opinion in the first game,lin dan won easily and got over confident..and all the world's all right.... in the second game..chen hong tried several tricks and got lucky..pissing off the confident lin dan to play "what you can do i can do too" but was not as lucky...by the time lin dan realize whats happening chen hong's score is already too far away......too late you can see chen hong increase his concentration and tricks and pissing off the young lin dan in the second game on the 3rd game,the again over confident lin dan didnt play his usual good game but wants to play "let's trick each other" kind of game....and realizing that he....CAN'T pull it off......his over confidence and think too low opinion of chen hong did him in.....he played like a spoiled kid not a pro that he should have been...cool and controlled like what chen hong did....the whole game...CH didnt get pissed off at his mistakes...he just keep on his game plan....all the way..... once again..over confident lin dan didnt take the game seriously till its too late...AGAIN..... it was a match between a man and a boy....
To 2love2live Easy. I found out early that Hongkong was going to go live on Saturday SF and Sunday F, so I just took a flight to Hongkong Friday night. Much cheaper + ringside view, than flying to Birmingham, and I could have a drink (I had several) and smoke a cigar and risk a heart attack. I was rushing to the computer to see what people were saying and rushing back to see whether someone had been slaughtered - basically I like the vicarious nature of live badminton or table tennis - especially badminston because the whole body is in action whereas in TT its mainly the arms and footwork. Kwun was absent for most of the Sunday night. Mind you the play went to 2 am each night. I am not answering Q's on my condition on Monday at work. To Mag You said it when you first raised this Q. This is a red herring. When did you last see one? But we all had a 'go' at defending our positions. To whoever provided the juicy bit about LYB's theatrics when ChenH waited for him to come and sit down. (Can't go back to check who it was otherwise I'll have to rewrite this masterpiece!!!) That was a gem.LYB is a prima donna and thinks journalists are interested in him at the after-game press conferences. A mixed-up kid - especially when his blue-eyed boy LD flopped. Y
I have now seen the match so I will offer my opinion. I think it was several factors. Chen Hong looks to be playing better than he used to. He no longer plays too many of his old "favourite shot" the reverse slice smash He is better at the net The body language of Lin Dan suggested to me that he was tired. Maybe he picked up a virus. That's what it looked like to me on the TV close-ups. At the start of the 3rd, Lin Dan was briefly re-energised, but only for a few rallies. Chen killed Lin at the net. In last year's final Gade killed Lin at the net, but eventually it was Gade who ran out of steam and couldn't keep up with Lin. This year Lin ran out of steam. It didn't look fixed to me.
I never said he didn't deserve it cos he did, but i thiought it was a bit strange that Lin Dan did so well against him in the first set but then lost it in the other two. He was making alot of mistakes he didn't make before but Chen Hong did play well so WELL DONE CHEN HONG!!
