Day 5: FINAL - China vs Indonesia

Discussion in 'Sudirman Cup 2005' started by apontoh, May 14, 2005.

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Who wins the Sudirman Cup?

Poll closed May 16, 2005.
  1. China

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  2. Indonesia

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  1. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    IMO, as I posted a few times before, LinDan still needs to work on his techniques..From what I've observed so far after watching him play 3 times, his game is purely based and relies on his speed and quickness..Your observation about his service is one of a few minor work he needs to improve. But I thought, he needs to work on 2 main things:
    1. his net-play, to a certain degree his footwork, which was exposed quite a bit by Sony Kuncoro and Taufik. Yes, LinDan made a few quick adjustments during the match against Taufik, esp. when Taufik wanted to play net and LinDan read it on a few occasions. If he doesn't improve next time around, those chances for LinDan might not be there..
    2. as Han mentioned in this thread also, he needs to work on his defense..Often times, he was just in an awkward position(ie. when he thought Taufik was going for a re-netdrop and he anticipated and jump forward, while Taufik read it and lobbed the shuttle over him). Things like those, which I noticed LinDan often times struggled with. But I guess with his speed and quickness, in his mind he will think that he still can get to any impossible shots..

    Again, as Han mentioned also, it was LinDan's day and Taufik did make the victory a bit easier by making quite a few unforced errors(easy points for LinDan). Hope they'll meet again in the next battlefield soon.. :cool:

     
    #441 ctjcad, May 15, 2005
    Last edited: May 15, 2005
  2. badplayer2004

    badplayer2004 Regular Member

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    about homeground line judges....in earlier tournaments in China....i think there are quite some MAJOR chinese DISAPPOINTMENTS even in their OWN HOMEGROUND......

    like in the recent China Open held nov. 2004

    MD goes to the Indos,runner up malaysia,THIRD place china

    and XD to the Danes

    runner up WS goes to hongkong as we be expecting still one of the chinese girls as well as 3rd place to france and 4th to denmark.....

    can you BELEIVE THAT?!:eek: RIGHT IN CHINA? JUST LAST NOVEMBER?!

    'nuf said...:cool:

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19652
     
    #442 badplayer2004, May 15, 2005
    Last edited: May 15, 2005
  3. badplayer2004

    badplayer2004 Regular Member

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    XD 3rd,4th to the Indos too..gaoling/zj in 5th place:rolleyes:

    you might even say cqq/ztingting just got lucky as runner up



    i rest my case.....:cool:
     
    #443 badplayer2004, May 15, 2005
    Last edited: May 15, 2005
  4. badplayer2004

    badplayer2004 Regular Member

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    this could be why taufik is confident over lindan even in the chinese homeground..because he KNOWS the line judges would be quite fair in the chinese tournaments

    you think it be as good in indonesian tournaments or korean?!:rolleyes:
     
    #444 badplayer2004, May 15, 2005
    Last edited: May 15, 2005
  5. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Last week was a badminton extravaganza for me, many thanks to SuperSports for providing the opportunity to watch selected ties and matches.

    Hitherto, the Sudirman Cup, though heard of, was never quite in the spotlight as it is this year in Singapore and to be able watch the assortment of countries and players in action on TV was a delight. I didn't know that the Sudirman Cup is so beautiful, encrusted in gold and full of meaning! This Cup is quite unlike the silver Thomas Cup or the Uber Cup.

    At the outset, a great majority of us have agreed that China is the overwheming favourites and it turned out just that.

    We had hoped for a better final between China and Indonesia in that at least Indonesia could take the first XD match to prolong the tie to the MD stage. But alas, though Nova Widianto and Lilyana Natsir played extremely well to take the first game against Zhang Jun and Gao Ling, 15-12, they succumbed in the remaining two games with too many unforced errors and an in-form Zhang Jun, to reduce Indonesia's chances further.

    In the MS, all hopes were on Olympic Champ Taufik to deliver the goods, but he also fell prey to World No.1 Lin Dan's speed and power. Taufik appeared well in control during the initial stages of the first game although he was trailing and limited Lin's options by serving low and playing more to his backhand. But he became overconfident, relaxed his control and strayed into lapses of concentration to allow Lin to captalize on his famous forehand smashes. He never quite recovered in the second game. On the other hand, Lin Dan grew stronger and more focussed with the home crowd giving him their full-throated support. Then Indonesia lost all chances of prolonging the battle when Taufik finally surrended.

    The WS was a mere formality as the inexperienced and small build 18-year old, Fransisca Hari, was totally unsettled in her first encounter with superstar Zhang Ning and eked out a consolation point. But what a display of grit and determination she put up in the second game that even Zhang was seen breathing heavily towards the end to finally win with a 11-7 scoreline.

    The ties that I've watched did not reveal any fresh male faces that really impress, except perhaps for Korean Jang, who fought Lin Dan during the semi-finals.

    But in the ladies, Erico Hirose of Japan, the young Danish WS (?) who played against Hari in the semi-finals, Hari herself (coached by Hendrawan?) and Lilyana of Indonesia will be faces to watch in the near future! :)
     
  6. badplayer2004

    badplayer2004 Regular Member

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    IMO...zj/gaoling and lindan made the critical win for the cup..they did their duty :)

    but the heroes of the tournament is the 2 indo girls nat and hari.... :p....heroes are still heroes despite getting killed
     
  7. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    It's interesting to note that the ladies players you mentioned below are still young: Eriko Hirose(21), Fransisca Ratnasari Haris(18) and Lilyana Natsir(19). Those faces if they keep on training and improving and barring any injuries, could be the main women players to watch in 2 yrs. at the next SC edition...
    Next year's edition of the Uber(as well as Thomas) Cups should be interesting as it will be played in Japan..

     
  8. Ningtyas

    Ningtyas Regular Member

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    I wish Lilyana Natsir play single as well. I admire the way she plays.
    As for Fransisca, she is so young and inexperienced but she has courage and this 'fighting spirit'. Hope she'll do better in the future.

    Anyway, congrats to the Chinese. Admittedly they're the best team today, they do deserve to win the Cup.
     
  9. aiyuuw

    aiyuuw Regular Member

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    agree ningtyas, if there is one thing that fransisca has and not every other player has that would be her determination and fighting spirit, that girl got my respect for fighting hard till the end:D
     
  10. peace

    peace Regular Member

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    Congratulations to The Chinese team...It was really a perfect match...Amazing boy Lin Dan played quite well....he indeed can make taufik played with unforced error especially in the 2nd set....He is indeed a world no 1 player..no doubt of it...

    The first Match (XD) was really amazing...Indonesian pair is very good I think...eventhough seems lost of concentration in 2nd and 3rd set....But one thing I admire is Lilyana Natsir..She played well....pity that Nova made so many errors

    For WS, indeed Zhang Ning played like giving a coach for Fransisca....but that Indonesian WS has showed her best...their class is just far away...Zhang Ning is far higher than her....but who knows maybe she will become a new Susi Susanti next time.....just to make the women matches become more interesting...because we know..when Chinese plays..no doubt they will win....

    One again, congratulation to China and especially Lin Dan...you are indeed a great player recently....
     
  11. clemclem

    clemclem New Member

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    I was just rewatching the MXD doubles and I think the rally when it was 8-14 (Natsir serving) was simply amazing. Superb defence and attack on both sides. There were 85 strokes and the rally last 1 min and 5 secs. I rate this as best rally in the final...must see.
     
  12. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    Yeah, I think I remember that one. It ended when Gao Ling executed a cross-court drop shot that Nova failed to retrieve, right? If I was right, it should be an even number of strokes.
     
  13. nueva_symphony

    nueva_symphony Regular Member

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    It was a good final, especially for the XD and MS in which Indonesia were in the matches for most parts of the game. Indubitably, the loss in the XD sealed the Indonesians' fate. After all, everyone rightly believed that the WS and WD were foregone conclusions. It would have been nice to see the MD clash though. China are undoubtedly the strongest team in this competition and the current depth in the Chinese women's team is untouchable.

    Lin Dan is the world number one for his consistency arising from general mental toughness, powerful strokes and agility. Few players today can match up these strengths. Yet, I don't think he is hitherto close to the great Chinese players of the past that had wonderful fluid styles. Some have rightly pointed out some of his weaknesses such as net play that perhaps he needs to improve on before one can say he is of 'legend' material.

    In my opinion, Taufik Hidayat is the most naturally gifted player today. His mental toughness has been lacking, but one will realize that this aspect has improved over the years. He's been around for 8 years, and has had highs and lows. Consistency has been his problem due to certain unfortunate circumstances. Nonetheless, he remains an exciting player to watch and some of his deceptive shots are reminiscent of the great players. His drop shots from the backcourt and backhand are remarkable. He won the Olympics because his form truly peaked at that time. His great conviction could also be seen in the body language displayed. I believe he would have beaten Lin Dan at the Olympics judging from the form displayed at that juncture. His inconsistency would suggest however that his win-loss record would not be too favorable against Lin Dan even if the two had met many times before. One feels that he will win only when he is fully committed since this desire often seems to be lacking.

    As far as women's singles go, Zhang Ning is simply outstanding, even at 30. She has the full arsenal of shots and plays more aesthetically pleasing badminton than many of the male players. The Chinese team probably still recognises her as the best player in the world, even though Xie Xingfang and Zhang Ning may see themselves as equally matched. XXF is also quite nice to watch on and off court for more than one reason. Her body language on court is as entertaining as her style of play, of which the latter appears quite unconventional perhaps because of her height. She also does make a good 'cheerleader' for the team, and has apparently been given that role for quite a while now. She is perhaps going to be the only top notch Chinese player in a few years' time once ZN retires. That will be indeed a test of her mental toughness, which one may perceive as slightly fragile despite her recent success. Makes it all the more interesting, doesn't it?
     
  14. Qidong

    Qidong Regular Member

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    And Lin Dan, Bao, Xie and Ca/Fu are still young. Even without new faces, probably they will still be the team to beat in 2007.
     
  15. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    how do u define a 'great' player? does having fluid like movement a necessary requirement for a great player? Maybe his weakness is due to his strength - like why be good at net when LD can beat many players with his other core skills? why master something when one dont need it yet :confused:

    Bruce Lee is undoubtedly a legendary fighter. He achieve that by cutting out the craps of the old style fluid-flowery moves of the traditional kungfu and replaced with SPEED AND EXPLOSIVENESS.

    In golf: it's drive for show and putt for dough
    My saying is:
    In badminton and fighting: it's strokes for show and speed for dough. :p

    Look at china's latest success, LD, Xia ZX, CH. What are their core skills?

    Now if u go back and watch han jian vs morten frost 1985 MS final at calgary, big difference. Time changed. No way china going back to han jian styles. He'll be cut up if he plays loppies with LD LOL
     
    #455 cooler, May 16, 2005
    Last edited: May 16, 2005
  16. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Yes, they are the current defending champ and the team to beat for the upcoming SC 2007..However, in 2 yrs., the squad could lose a few of its stable vets(esp. Gao/Zhang, ChenHong and ZN)..With the names you mentioned below, they only cover MS and WS..Let's review the Chinese squad:

    1. IMO, China will need another WS player to cover XXF as their 2nd line, just like this year's edition(if ZN does retire within this next 2 yrs.)..
    2. MS, as you noted, should have no problem as they have 2 proven in LD and Bao..
    3. WD, they still have the firepower and 2 pairs, but they will be older whilst other countries have younger pairs coming up(Korea)..Depends also on Gao, if ChenHong retires, then she might follow..
    4. MD, China only has Fu/Cai as a 'legit pair' at present, no real backup pair, but who knows what they'll have..
    5. Also, one has to look into the XD..I read somewhere LYB had asked for ZJ to hold off on the retirement and play til the 2008 Olympics so he/Gao can win the title 3x. And according to the article, ZJ wants China to sweep the badminton medals in the 2008 Olympics at home. So they could likely will have 2 pairs..But most likely China will go with another pair in 2007 SC, most likely CQQ/ZTT(if ZJ and/or Gao does retire within the next 2 yrs.)....

    Taking into consideration that some of their current players might not play in 2 yrs. at the next SC, the only "for sure" field China can offer, with legitimate 2nd line players are the MS, WD and XD..Unlike this year, where they had basically *all* 5 fields covered..

     
    #456 ctjcad, May 16, 2005
    Last edited: May 16, 2005
  17. Wai Shing

    Wai Shing Regular Member

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    Hmm, Cai/Fu may get more attention but Sang Yang/Zheng Bo are no pancakes either...plus they have another up and coming pair Xie Zhongbo/Guo Zhendong who have started to participate on the grand prix circuit. And this Xie Zhongbo also plays XD with Zhang Yawen.
     
  18. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    What i wanted to write was, IMO, China has 3 fields covered this year(MS, WS and WD), instead of 5..In 2 yrs. unless they find new young players or their 2nd line players show tremendous improvements, they only will have 1 field covered(MS)..With the other fields going 50-50:WS, WD(depends on Gao), MD, and XD(depends on Gao/Zhang)..

     
  19. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    I just wouldn't worry about the chinese badminton :D
    all pistons are running fine (plus some we dont know about it either) ;)
    gas tank is full too :p
     
  20. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    yes, don't get me wrong, I'm not underestimating the other Chinese players you mentioned below(MD or XD), not at all, but they have to show that they can compete and win in "bigger" tournaments first..A lot of countries have pairs/players that are young and coming up also(Malaysians, Koreans, Danes, Indos to name a few)..I'm sure 2 yrs. is plenty of time for teams, esp. in Group 1, to expose the younger players and get them ready..
    I'm esp. interested to know who will be the 2nd line WS player behind XXF after ZN retires..

     
    #460 ctjcad, May 16, 2005
    Last edited: May 16, 2005

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