Comparing LD vs LCW

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by galaxyduo, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    What is the difference between LD and LCW? They are both two of the greatest players badminton has seen, with LD likely the greatest player ever in badminton. So let's compare LD to LCW (however, please refrain from trolling such as LD has more walkovers than LCW, etc):

    Mentality:
    - LD gets the win here. LD is much more mentally stronger than LCW. Two examples of LCW's weak mentality are the 2008 Olympics and 2012 Thomas Cup. The 2010 Thomas Cup match was particularly embarassing for LCW as he was tooled by LD in front of his homecrowd in Malaysia. It's very unlikely that LD would allow LCW to do that if the two played in a Thomas Cup hosted in China.

    Deception:
    - LCW is one of the best deceptive players but LD wins here. I can't count the number of times LD has fooled LCW but it's much more rare for LCW to fool LD.

    Smash:
    - LD also wins here. Maybe somebody has measured their smash power when they play against each other because this would be more objective. When LD wants to smash though, he seems to smash harder than LCW. This is not surprising though because LD is bigger and more muscular than LCW - just compare LD's arms to LCW's arms.

    Net play:
    - LD is probably the best singles net player in the world. This is an area where LCW should have caught up to LD. I can't count the number of major matches LCW has lost to LD because of LD's superior net shot. At the WC last year, when LCW was on match point in the 3rd set, LD pulled a super tight net shot that caused LCW to lift poorly, and LD got an easy smash to save the match. At this year's Olympics, again on match point but this time for LD, LCW hit a high lob out because of a tight tumbling net shot from LD. If LCW was better at the net than LD, maybe it would be LCW with a gold medal and a WC instead of LD.

    Anticipation:
    - LD also wins here. It's rare for LCW to match LD's anticipation but conversely, LD has shown his superior anticipation in various matches against LCW. The most obvious was the 2008 Olympic final and the 2010 Thomas Cup match between the two, where LD managed to obtain multiple net kills against LCW because LD anticipated LCW's net shot. Interestingly, LCW seemed to have better anticipation than LD at the 2012 Olympic final and that's one of the reasons why the match was alot closer than the 2008 Olympic final.

    Footwork:
    - So if LD is superior in all the departments above, then where is LCW better than LD? LCW has to be better than LD at something in order for LCW to have beaten LD in the past. Thus, IMO, I think LCW has better footwork than LD. If you observe carefully, It seems like LCW can get to more difficult shots than LD, even when LD pulls off a deceptive shot against LCW. In fact, I think LCW's footwork is his greatest strength and LCW may have the best footwork in the world with LD second.

    Defense:
    - For me, this is split down the middle. To analyze this, let's split it into body defense and sideline defense. IMO, LCW has better sideline defense while LD has better body defense. Because of LCW's better footwork, he is able to return smashes down the sideline better than LD. However, LD probably has the best body defense in the world. I can't count the number of times that a direct smash at LD's body is returned during crucial matches. However, LCW has lost some critical points in major matches when LD has smashed at LCW's body. Maybe this is the power of LD's smash? I don't know. But if LD does have body defense, it would be consistent with his superior drive shot (as analyzed below) and his superior anticipation.

    Drive shots:
    - LD also wins here. When put into a situation where both players have to drive, LD is also better than LCW. This may also be related to LD's superior anticipation. If you watch the major matches between LD and LCW, when both start driving the shuttle at each other, LD usually comes out on top.

    Stamina/fitness:
    - LD clearly wins here. If the match goes to a 3rd set, LD is able to pick up his game compared to LCW. LD simply has more stamina than LCW.


    Feel free to add other points of comparison between LD and LCW!
     
  2. V1lau

    V1lau Regular Member

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    I will predict you will not find consensus on just about everything. :D
     
  3. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    unfortunately for lcw, ld is possibly the most complete badminton player the world has seen so far... and i'm not saying this lightly because i'm a malaysian chinese
     
  4. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    well
    i cant help to guess
    if lindan win every section like u had said
    he should have win like 21-12,21-8 in this london olympic too,why he won by 21-19 in rubber?
     
  5. chibe_K

    chibe_K Regular Member

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    i personally like LD's style of play better, very little body movement when making a shot, lots of wrist action and most of all simple shots but very effective. Also LD's posture is very much like Taufik and I have been wondering if LD got it from Taufik. LD always keeps his body low.

    LCW on the other hand, has the style of play very much like the "Brazilian soccer", relies on fancy shots, but not threatening enough to kill opponents, especially a strong opponent like LD who reads him well. LCW's shots are slower and his biggest problem is his body movement tends to reveal the shot he is going to make. He relies too much on his hand/body coordination to make a shot. During the finals, clearly LCW ran out of gas, as a results his defense was very poor, many of his clears were half court if you observed where LD was standing when he prepared to jump smash. This clearly showed the weakness in LCW, his wrist was not strong enough. Another player very much like LCW's style of play is KKK, like the Halem basketball, fancy, entertaining, but not threatening.

    To summarize, LCW is the top club player. LD is the top tournament player.
     
    #5 chibe_K, Aug 7, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  6. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    the first game he lost from many enforced errors, ie. hitting out and wide of baseline

    the 2nd, he changed to a higher gear and with less errors

    the 3rd, he was chugging along with lcw, and then decided to turn on his "god" mode when down 16-18 and never looked back :)
     
  7. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    can provide any statistic of unforce error of both player to back up ur reply?
     
  8. Ton-Min-Bad

    Ton-Min-Bad Regular Member

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    Not fair, but for sure funny! ;)
     
  9. well-son

    well-son Regular Member

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    I need to add the luck factor, LD has more luck than LCW :D
    Of course you don't have to agree,
    but sometimes it happens in life
     
  10. ant01

    ant01 Regular Member

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    LCW always seems to make more unforced errors than LD. Can't give away free points to a player like LD. Also LD seems to have the edge with mental strength which is hugely important when it gets tight. E.g. in the 3rd game when LCW had his flick serve called good then out, he lost the next couple of points on simple unforced errors...but when LD was 16-18 down he can come back to win.
     
  11. John JY Wong

    John JY Wong Regular Member

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    My 2 cents:

    When comparing between these two great badminton players ...

    Lin Dan is a complete player with his main strength in attack : killer & deceptive smash, tight net play, etc. His defence is suspect at times, but his attacking play more than makes up for it (and then some!). Footwork, physical fitness & mental strength is among the best too. I liken him to Zhao Jianhua playing at his very best. However, he does have his "off" days; I liken him to Zhao Jianhua on his off day. :)

    Lee Chong Wei is a complete player with his main strength in defence : impressive defence, quick reflexes, excellent court coverage, etc. His attack is more on the "classic" side of things, as he is able to mix his shots & prevent his opponents from anticipating them. No killer smash, though he does have an excellent overhead smash (great against right-handed players, not-so-great against left-handers). Physical fitness is excellent. Mental strength is also among the best (he may have a "inferiority" feeling when facing LD though). Very consistent player. I liken him to a souped-up Ardy Wiranata or Allan Budi Kusuma. :)

    LD holds a big advantage in head-to-head meetings with LCW (16-8 I think). And I believe it is due to:
    1. Attack is the best form of defence.
    2. LD is a "pro-active" player while LCW tends to be more a "re-active" player. This gives LD "the initiative" ... & hence, an advantage in badminton matches.
     
  12. julianng

    julianng Regular Member

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    both players have about the same speed and stamina.

    But LD has a little advantage in height, skill and 'naturally' harder smashes.
     
  13. yamsyams

    yamsyams Regular Member

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    I think the most significant advantage LD has over LCW is his self-belief and confidence that he can execute the right shots at the right time. If you look at the point 19-19 in G3, LD suddenly upped his speed and went all out attack, even when he committed a net error on the previous point. It's the same at last year's WC. At 19-19 in G3, LD anticipated LCW's drop and moved in to take it early, but failed to send it over the end. In the next point, he had the confidence to try the exact same tactic which obviously worked.
     
  14. Ython

    Ython Regular Member

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    Yamsyams was right, it is same as last year WC. LD move in to closer to net even when he lift the shuttle to baseline with some speed. LCW couldn't get a proper smash than can really kill instead drop the shuttle. Since LD is there, it is simple for LD get nice net shot. LCW has no choice to lift the shuttle. LCW can do the other way now, cause LD overhead smash was the fastest even seen. He can jump to back ahead of the shuttle. Galaxyduo, we cannot compare 2008 OG with 2012 OG. In 2008 LCW still far from LD in term of attacking. LCW still very passive player back then. Only after the 2008 OG has train his attacking like LD or close to LD. LD has psycology edge over LCW since he has better record therefore he has confident to make those tight netshot. Skill wise both are the same. The way I look at it is tactical wise or game plan.

    On the 2nd game it was some drift on LD right hand side. LCW has lost the confident to send the shuttle there. That's why during 19-20, LCW lift the shuttle to back center instead right hand baseline. If right hand baseline will make LD more difficult to chase the shuttle. It was only my opinion. I lile see other to give his opinion as well.
     
  15. Qidong

    Qidong Regular Member

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    I remembered in WC 2005, Taufik's tight net play killed LD. Sony did the same thing also. LD kept trying to avoid playing at the net. Now LD's net play is excellent. I believe that's a result of hard work.
     
  16. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    Cause Super Dan doesn't need to unleash his god mode every moment.
    Game 1, both players testing water
    Game 2, Lin Dan murdereddddd LCW
    Game 3, Lin Dan turned on God Mode in late game and LCW became a club player.

    Taufik was in his prime then, Lin Dan was just starting to make a name for himself. Don't forget 2005 was 7 years ago, Lin Dan was only 21 then.
     
  17. badders2006

    badders2006 Regular Member

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    But who has the better technique from a purist's point of view?

    IMO, it is LCW.


    OMG his cross court smash is suuuuuch a thing of beauty. The way his body and face is angled 90 degrees to the net, his body jumping back towards the base of the court, but then BOOM!!!! Power and precision. That shot has hurt LD many a times!!!

    And how his face remains 90 degrees (focused on the point of contact between shuttle and racquet) for sooooo long after the shuttle has been hit, whereas many players are already looking frontwards when they hit their cross court smash. In this regard, LCW's CC smash is very much like Roger Federer's forehands (watch how Federer keeps his head and eyes tilted towards the point of contact for sooo long after the ball has been hit).

    Anyway, maybe I'm fussing over nothing. But dammmmn, it looks pretty ;)
     
  18. Accordaz

    Accordaz Regular Member

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    Another LD-Fanboy...:rolleyes: Crushed in to his idol that much that he forgets objectivity:rolleyes:

    Game 1 was for sure not testing water. Who would test the opponent in a olympic final game. Better get the match in straight games than testing and risking the whole match.
    Game 1 was clearly the nervous (or unconcentrated / not focused) phase of LD. It was more or less like AE2012, when LD won the first set too close, regarding LCW's shoulder injury.
    Game 2 was LD's game. Nothing to comment. Maybe LYB tips helped him a little bit too. It was obvious that LCW has given up the set early...
    Game 3 was close, and LCW would even trash you with the left hand. Shame on you for declaring him as a club player. As an amateur.
    Unfortunately LCW didn't stay focused in the last points. He also probably was a little bit passive. I would say his performance in the WC2011 was a little bit better.

    Both of them would deserve the gold medal...
     
    #18 Accordaz, Aug 8, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  19. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    to quote our beloved commentator, you made you own luck.
     
  20. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    how do you define unforced error?

    how about serve to the net, is it an unforced error? if your opponent is so aggressive in return that will force you to make perfect serve every time so your margin of error getting smaller and smaller. so the serve to the net error is an forced error in disguise as you been forced to serve tighter and tighter.
     

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