Chinese Badminton

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by Justin L, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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    Justin thank you kindly for your response to my message. Firstly please dont take my comments too much to heart. Its only my observation of an oversight that is happening with the Chinese badminton industry.
    Yes a kind leader feels for his players but not at the expense of the team. The truth always hurts but if you are not good enough you have to be dropped. The CBA should look after those that have retired etc its not LYB's job to do that.
    A good leader looks at all aspects and one of his main tasks is how to get the best players to the fore and recognising who they are. This policy of the CBA of not sending players to tournaments one month before or after a major tournament is blatantly a mistake. All the other countries that took part in the recent tournaments like Japan,thailand,Malaysia,Indonesia and even Singapore are there. China is not a country with one or two players who have to rest.
    Maybe I am being a little naive here. Is it possible that a successful second team ed by a different person will show him up?


    .
    Any leader of a team or a business will have feelings for his team mates or colleagues. I can see clearly LYB's attachment to his players as he doesnt want to discard the players who are not performing. This shouldnt be his concern. This is where the CBA comes in by putting in a pension scheme or placing them in another vocation. Look at the football industry. Their management skills are for all to see. They can buy the best players.



    .
     
  2. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I'm inclined to agree with you about CHN sending their 2nd team, composing of second stringers and juniors, to those lesser tournaments instead of skipping them.

    My concern is if they do so and ended up winning the majority of titles (which may very well be the case), will it go down well with the ROW ? Not only that, it may unintentionally result in CHN having more of their players ranked in the top 10, just like in their table tennis, again not what the ROW will take to kindly.

    As for the state taking care of retired national players, I'm all for it- they fully deserve it for all their dedication, hard work, sacrifice and contribution to the sport. Sadly, it's not uncommon to hear of retired national players struggling to make ends meet, sank into oblivion and just faded away.
     
  3. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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  4. weiping_tx

    weiping_tx Regular Member

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    About the retired professional badminton athletes, those with big titles like OG, WC, usually get offered positions as coach in national/provincial teams, or governemt offercial. They can also choose to go to college. For those without these big titles, they can make a good living with their professional skills if they want. There has been an fast booming popularity of badminton in China, and this brings a large demand in professional coaching. Even retired provincial team players can easily make very good living by coaching amateur learners. I have even learnt about quite a few Malaysian, who have never played in Malaysia national team, started to reside in China making very good living by coaching badminton. The retired athletes in those sad storis are usually from some unpopular sports such as wrestling, field and track, and weight lifting.
     
  5. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    CHN is making one change to their Asian Games lineup to be officially announced tomorrow 10th Sep, namely in their WD where Tian Qing will replace Tang Jinhua as reported here http://sports.qq.com/a/20140909/055935.htm.

    Although the said article did not specifically say who Tian Qing will be partnering, it can be deduced that she'll be paired up with Zhao Yunlei with whom she won gold at the just concluded Copenhagen WC. That leaves Ma Jin to pair up with Bao Yixin as Wang XL/Yu Yang are back together again.
     
  6. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    China Men's team lost in Thomas Cup and Asian Games. Whose fault is it? What should LYB do?
     
  7. zhuangcorp

    zhuangcorp Regular Member

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    I think definitely LYB should bring in a good Korean coach for MD. The koreans are definitely doing something different and better than the rest of the world as evidenced by the latest WC. A Indonesian coach wouldn't be bad either.

    New singles coach wouldn't be bad either. The new crop of MS needs to step up, and they haven't yet. I think special focus should be placed on WZM. He seems to be the guy with the most potential, but just can't seem to be consistent. LYB seems to purposely ignore him. WZM already has better offense than Chen Long, but needs to improve his defense and movement.
     
  8. zhuangcorp

    zhuangcorp Regular Member

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    I think its time to break up LXL and QZH. This is long overdue. No progress in the past 2 years.

    Maybe try LXL with Hong Wei.
     
  9. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    It doesn't bode well for CHN if she had to depend on the old guards to save face as what she did at the Asian Games with Lin Dan and Cai Yun/Fu Haifeng, and for how long more. In fact, after Lin Dan was pushed hard in G2 with Lee Dong Keun yesterday for a narrow 28-26 win, he praised LDK as a much improved player. Then he went on to say that a number of countries such as KOR and JPN have narrowed the gap with CHN MS and added that CHN badminton may have to reinvent itself, to my surprise.

    So I'd say CHN's Achilles' heel is for the time being is MD no doubt but other disciplines including MS and WS are to a considerable extent coming under threat. Even in WD which used to be CHN's untouchable strength is losing some shine as evident today when TQ/ZYL was bundled out by the INA WD pair while the near-invincible pair of WXL/YY was knocked out by the unfancied MAS pair yesterday (albeit Yu Yang might not have regained her full match fitness yet after her recent three-month break due to illness which necessitated an operation).

    True, we can find certain justifiable excuses for some of CHN's disappointing failures at the Thomas Cup followed by LXR's disastrous collapse, not to mention WYH and WSX's flops , at Copenhagen, and now CHN Men's Team's downfall at the final hurdle barely a month after the TC debacle, still at the same time we can't help but worry it may point to possibly a sort of systemic problem in CBA. Of course, there's no gainsaying the rest of the world has raised their standard but that's only part of the story. It's telling as well as interesting to note that such an unexpected turn of events actually occurs soon after CHN's unprecedented, phenomenal clean sweep at the London Olympics.

    Well, if CBA, in particular LYB, doesn't begin to take serious or drastic measures to address the downslide with more urgency, I'm afraid the problematic situation is going to get worse and for longer than desirable before it starts to get better. Already it seems unavoidable now as CHN has of late lost a number of major championships. Early this year, LYB assessed that 2013 was CBA's worst performing year in a decade, apparently the signs are clear this year is worse.

    Incidentally, I've also noticed that since CHN's historic feat of five Olympic golds, Li Yongbo seems to be a changed man, less strict and demanding of his charges and subordinates, more willing to accept and give reasons or find excuses for their defeats and shortcomings; in other words, he appears more easily contented, less ambitious (or you might say more realistic) in setting targets. In fact, not long ago he expressed his greater concern and personal desire to leave a lasting legacy in CHN badminton in particular, and world badminton in general beyond just winning numerous coveted titles, earning most-sought-after accolades and achieving the highest awards. That's just my opinion; some of you may think I'm wrong about him but I won't be far wrong, I believe.
     
  10. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    When was the last time CHN was without a WD finalist in a major tournament?

    According to this article http://sports.sina.com.cn/yayun2014/o/2014-09-26/22597348556.shtml, you'd have to go back almost 20 years to the 1995 World Championships when Ge Fei/Gu Jun and Qin Yiyuan/Tang Yongshu respectively lost in the QF and the SF to the KOR Ji Yongya/Zhang Huiyu (sorry, I'm not sure of their KOR romanized names).

    The author calls the situation embarrassing and says it's high time for CHN badminton to make sweeping changes and take drastic actions to resolve the problem.
     
  11. Zhierl

    Zhierl Regular Member

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    Oww, that's a secret ...
    For me, CBA 'n LYB not enough learn from their Uber Cup 2010 fiasco. That tournament, ZN & XXF retired not playing again, so the junior WYH take the WS1 and we know the result. This make me remember of China situation after LLW retired and HH retired to marry an Indonsian. YZY the junior suddenly take the helm, and for a period China women dicipline collapse.
    This make that the junor must given opportunity to take alot internationl exp before their level up in National team.
    Unfortunately, CBA seem send their first and second stinger in 90% intl tour. Even IC or GPG tour, we rarely see Chinese junior.
    I can imagine, w/ Chinese first stinger now already matched by ROW (in younger age), and then these firts stinger retired not afar future and then ROW in their mature, and Chinese junior still not enough exp "n mental strength exp cause their super lack intl tour, Chinese Badminton (Girl/Boy) will fall into the same hole Indonesian fall decade ago or at least a period slum like women sector in mid 90's ...

    And for WD embarassing result in AG '14, i think its more wise to pair WXL w/ MJ instead YY cuse her condition. Unfortunately TJH also not available too, make BYX/TJH not a choice too.
    I'm curious what happen to Cheng Su, she is good choice for BYX, me think.
     
  12. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Cheng Shu sustained a knee injury during the All China Games 2013. It was quite serious.
     
  13. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    LYB is only 52 years old. At this age, he won't be retiring in the near fuure. He won't be getting a promotion any time soon either as his new boss just arrived last year (another basketball coach).

    So I guess there won't be any major change to Chinese badminton team in the near future.
     
  14. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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    You are right. Without change you will continue to see tired and jaded players asked to perform time and time again. And it seems like LYB is also in the same vein.

    Accept responsibilty for the poor performance and allow somebody else to take the helm and reorganise the structure in the CBA. A new team is needed otherwise we will continue to see mediocre performances from the Chinese badminton players. Sad but the truth always hurts.
     
  15. zhuangcorp

    zhuangcorp Regular Member

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    I really wish LYB would try some new MD combinations.

    The best pair right now is clearly ZN/FHF.

    But i'd like to see Liu Xiaolong with Hong Wei. Combine Liu's speed at the front with Hong Wei's power from the back.

    LXL/QZH have had dismal results as of late, and I don't see any real hope for them.
     
  16. volcom

    volcom Regular Member

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    QZH is way too unfit, he ain't no Zheng Bo or Zhang Jun.
     
  17. insaint84

    insaint84 Regular Member

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    they are only good in flat drives. they don have soft touches.
     
  18. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I'm for CBA giving their juniors, both singles and doubles, more exposure at the senior international circuit and identify those outstanding ones for promotion to the 2nd or elite team based on their performance. At a time like this, it's more important than restricting the juniors to winning the junior championships.
     
  19. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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    Justin in your first comment in this thread you said that LYB is concentrating on team results and individual achievements are less important.
    LD is an individual, and CL is another . If there is another individual like LCW or SWH in the chinese line up then all the team tournaments would be won by China!!
    It does sound like poor or bad foresight.

    The lack of exposure to international tournaments for the CBA juniors is highlighted when you compare what one country is doing . Here is a taiwanese junior Lu Hung Chia, who lost to Lin Gui Pu in the quarterfinals of the YOG recently. This is his exposure to the international circuit.

    Lu Hung Chia (DOB 3.4.1997) tournaments played and results

    At age 15
    August 8, 2012. Yonex Sunrise Vietnam Open played in Doubles
    October 3, 2012. Yonex Chinese Taipei Open lost in 1st round
    October 2012. World Junior Championships
    December 2012. Tata India open International Challenge lost in 2nd round

    As a 16 year old junior
    March 2013. Ciputra Hanoi Vietnam Open lost in 2nd round
    June 2013. Li Ning Maldives International Challenge lost in 1st round
    August 2013, Li Ning Singapore Challenge lost in 3rd round
    September 2013, Yonex Taipei Open lost in 3rd round
    October 2013, World Junior Championships
    November 2013, Yonex Belgian Open. Lost in 2nd round
    November 2013, Maybank Malaysia International Challenge lost in 3rd round
    December 2013, Yonex Sunrise Vietnam Open lost in 1st round
    December 2013, Tata India International Challenge lost in 3rd round

    At age 17
    February 2014, Asia Youth Championships
    March 2014, Ciputra Yonex Sunrise Vietnam International Challenge lost in 2nd round
    April 2014, World Junior Championships
    June 2014, Sri Lanka International Challenge lost in 3rd roun
    July 2014, Yonex Canada Open lost in 1st round
    July 2014, Yonex Suffolk US Open lost in 2nd round
    July 2014, Yonex Chinese Taipei GP Open lost in 1st round
    September 2014, Yonex Sunrise Vietnam GP Open lost in 1st round
    September 2014, Fernby Auckland International Champion
    5th October 2014, Kawasaki Biere Larue Vietnam International. In the final to be played today

    There are so many chinese juniors but if an elite squad of 5 juniors comprising those selected for the Asian and world junior tournaments plus two selected from competition amongst themselves should be given this opportunity to play in international tournaments. This is only an example. But a selection system based on competition amongst them is a rewarding incentive.
    Most Asean countries follow the strategy of international exposure at an early age.

    Sorry Justin I know you are not the CBA. But I rest my case.
     
    #159 antssantss, Oct 4, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2014
  20. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Interesting, at the press conference for next year's Sudirman Cup to be held in Dongguan,China, Li Yongbo expressed that he would still consider fielding the odd XD-players partnership of Zhang Nan/Xu Chen as MD as seen at the Incheon Asian Games.At the same time he is also mulling over a possible Zhang Nan/Hong Wei combination which might be a necessary option should Xu Chen be needed for XD. http://sports.qq.com/a/20141009/050981.htm

    Elsewhere, he's acknowledged that if CHN is unable to raise their standard in MD which admittedly is their Achilles' heel, then winning team championships will get further and further away. WD is of some concern to him too but particularly still MD. He added that of late, he's beginning to see signs of hope in MD and it should produce some results soon primarily because they've made bold changes in training methodology. Once again, he re-affirmed his intention to forge the ZN/XC partnership with their own tactics and style. In passing, he made special mention of Cai Yun/Fu Haifeng's abundant experience and skills making an impacti f they train well, including Liu XL/Qiu ZH, even ZN/FHF, Hong Wei/Chai Biao or Hong Wei/Zhang Nan all of whom are of high standard which can be attributed to the past half-year's level of training. http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2014-10-09/23547364288.shtml

    (N.B. I'm not giving a full translation of the two cited articles but merely providing a summary of the more important points.)
     

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