Chinese Badminton

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by Justin L, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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    Hurrah. Finally a glimpse of some China juniors, most of them born in 2000 at the SCG Thailand Open starting 30.5.17. Sun Feixiang is also there. We get an opportunity to see Bai Yupeng whom, imho is very talented. Pity Gu Junfeng and Runze Yan are not there as well. Hopefully more juniors will be seen in future tournaments.
     
  2. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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    I am afraid this provincial team will not make it to the next round of the Victor International Series in Jakarta as they will be up against really good opposition today.I hope they can spring some surprises though.
     
  3. kelana

    kelana Regular Member

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    Former world champion, vice chairwoman of Chinese association Tang Jiuhong (L1) elected new member of Badminton World Federation Council - Xinhua Sports - 20 May 2017



    [​IMG]

    Wow, she gains so much weight today :D what a shape!!

    Btw, in other news the arguably higher achiever of the surely more prestigious team sport, the head coach of China's women's volleyball, the legendary Jenny Lang Ping was just promoted to the top seat as the vice president of Chinese Volleyball Association - Xinhua Sports - 2017.05.18

    So many changes in the top officials of the national sport organizations there recently: badminton, table tennis, volleyball, basketball, football...
     
    #1143 kelana, May 22, 2017
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
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  4. kelana

    kelana Regular Member

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    Any info where is Chen Jin now after leaving the NT? Landed in some club? Wish him good settlement.

    Anyhow I'm pleased to see the return of Zhang Ning, think she may bring the revival to the WS discipline.
     
  5. kelana

    kelana Regular Member

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    Btw just saw the info during CCTV-5 PLUS coverage on Sudirman Cup that it (or in alternate with CCTV-5) will cover the WTTC in GER this end of May as well as the Montreux Volleymaster in the 1st week of June in Switzerland :D
     
    #1145 kelana, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  6. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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    Just watching the Japanese team playing against China in the Sudirman cup. Why is it that a WJC not so many years ago, A.Yamaguchi can be so good that she is representing her Country. Similarly they have a very good MS player, K Nishimoto, only 23 years old also representing their country at the top level. Their Mens doubles are also very good. And lastly their Womens doubles are no 1 in the world. Not so long ago the Chinese women were top in all the categories. The Chinese junior Mens players are also quite average.
    What is the significance in all the poor performance? Does it point straight at the poor quality in the coaching staff? Or is the CBA very poor in managing this situation, i.e. they dont know what to do.
    If you look at the rankings for the juniors under 15 and under 17 at the bwf website, there isnt a Chinese player in all the lists. But the rest of the world are there.
    Is this arrogance or an oversight? Does it mean that Chinas juniors are too good to take part in these tournaments organised by the Asean countries?
    Talented juniors develop their skills at this age, and playing against juniors from the rest of the world allows them to pick up skills from each other.
    Am I wrong in this observation and the CBA has a secret training programme that they are using to train their juniors?
    If so, it seems to me it isnt doing very well !!
     
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  7. Woffle

    Woffle Regular Member

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    Well, the juniors are possibly another issue, and while I don't know enough about how junior rankings work my gut feeling is that they don't mean much. However, among the NT ranks, Shi Yuqi is 21, He Bingjiao is 20, Chen Yufei 19, Li Junhui and Liu Yuchen are 22, they have four WD players in the top seven who were born after 1995. and obviously Chen QC/Zheng SW are wr1 in XD (even if they are not playing like it...), and Li Yinhui has somehow managed to become wr4 in XD also, albeit partnering with Zhang Nan. A not very close look says that around half of Chinese players in the top-10 were born after 1995. So indeed, players born after 1995 are playing a big role on the team right now. Hell, even the much-maligned Sun Yu is still 'only' 23, the same age as this 'very good player' Nishimoto, who has a career high ranking of 40.
     
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  8. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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    The significant point of my comments is very simple. Japan not so long ago were not in the top tier of badminton and were easily brushed off by the Asean countries.
    Now they are at par with the top four. On the other hand China who was at the top in almost all categories, now has to fight tooth and nail to win their matches against them !!
    What does this add up to? The efficiency, intensity and quality of the of the Japanese coaching and the support of their Association has made this possible.
    K. Nishimoto although ranked 40 is an outstanding example of this point I make. He has given both L. Dan and LCW a pretty hard time and I feel that C. Long would have been nervous if he had played
    in the semi final. The other example is A Yamaguchi. H.Bingjiao was comparable when they played in the YOG but she has lagged behind now.
    It looks like the Japanese coaches put special emphasis on these two as well as all their juniors. Their footwork, speed and power is evident. In other words the strong elements in their game is worked on.
    Let us look at Sun Yu, She has height and power but ever since she appeared on the scene this part of her game is not worked on. She is also not a thinking player and gets wrong footed consistently at the front of the court by AY. The first time you are tricked is acceptable, but to be caught again and again is a clear example she is playing on her back foot.
    Of course the juniors and their rankings dont mean much now. But very soon both K Nishimoto, K Momota and all their promising juniors will come and haunt the Chinese team.
    If you cant even set your house in order how are you going to set your sights on the world??
     
  9. Woffle

    Woffle Regular Member

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    I mean, of course it's true that Japan has tried very hard to make themselves into a badminton power. And it is both true that China has, for a time (2010-13, say) heavily neglected their junior squads, and they have paid (and are currently) paying for it. But the way that juniors are developed and given playing opportunities is different for a team (China) with a great number of highly successful senior players, and a team (Japan) that, let's be real, only has mediocre senior players, especially, say the WS ranks in 2013-14. It's a lot easier to give the juniors playing opportunity when your seniors aren't that good.

    China's lineup yesterday was Chen QC (97) Zheng SW (97) LD (83) Li JH (95) Liu YC (95) Sun Y (94) Chen QC (97) Jia YF (97)
    Japan's lineup yesterday: Yuta Watanabe (97) Arisa Higashino (96) K Nishimoto (94) Takeshi Kamura (90) Keigo Sonoda (90) Yamaguchi (97) Matsutomo (92) Takahashi (90)

    So it seems to me as if China is more wholeheartedly embracing their youth movement.
     
  10. Woffle

    Woffle Regular Member

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    Also, I literally do not understand this idea that Nishimoto is a 'good player'. His current ranking is 61, he will have a record of 12-11 on the year after this week cause he lost four matches in a week. His best individual result is a R16 appearance at the asian champs, twice this year he didn't even manage to make it out of qualifications for a superseries and three other times it was a first-round loss. His best ever tournament result is apparently a GPG semi. That description does not a good player make.

    Without a doubt, he has a couple very good qualities. He apparently plays better against strong opponents, and he seems to play better when he is representing not just himself but his country, like in a team event. But that just means he's a mediocre player who happens to be able to find a higher gear on limited occasion.

    Now Momota was a good though decidedly tier 2 player, but he's coming off a long layoff, might not be able to get international assignments for a bit longer, and hasn't ever managed to take a game off the LD/LCW/CL triumvirate yet (though he's only played six matches against them). So, until he can demonstrate the capability of that, it's pretty questionable whether he'd ever make team China "regret" anything.
     
  11. kelana

    kelana Regular Member

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    I believe that China is now setting up its house in order, just look at the change of guards, of course it takes some time, a year or two or even a bit longer, to see the results, thus patience is needed!

    Life is like that. Complacency is killing. After being at the top of badminton for extended period, the other way is down the slope, and that's what happened to the Chinese badminton. And WS is the most badly affected due to the unfortunately injured Li Xuerui, and the resignation from NT by Wang Yihan and Wang Shixian. Created a great hole that can not be patched by the remaining resources. But to be fair any nation will suffer the same effects if suddenly its best three players become unavailable!
    Does any one think the dead wood SY would play yesterday against Akane if any of the three WS was available? :D:p [SY is simply unable to compete at the top levels, has no speed n no brain, so sluggish.]

    As had been discussed many times, CHN messed its WD by constantly changed the pairs in the last Oly cycle, made further blunder by giving priority to another dead wood YY to get the Oly ticket... such grave mistake had the devastating effects in CHN WD. Now I hope they won't spoil any good and stable pair!

    Of course other countries, in particular Japan and India, are improving much, and yes, the Japanese are making the impressive improvements, among others by hiring many foreign talents as the coaches.

    But to end my lines and cut them short :D:p let bygone be bygone! CBA SHOULD HAVE LEARNED THE VERY LESSONS.

    Now just be patient, results can't be obtained in short time, I think it may take another 2-3 years to groom a new potential squad in WS, kick out the dead wood, the WS is the weakest link in CHN badminton at present; other disciplines are in [much] better shape.
    Don't forget, hope n pray for the good recovery of Li Xuerui as well... a fully recovered Li may partially plug the big hole in the interim, at least until 2020 OG.

    JiaYou !!!


    P.S. I am glad that Zhang Ning is now more engaged in coaching team. Put some hope on her to bring in some positive contributions to the WS line.
     
    #1151 kelana, May 27, 2017
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
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  12. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    i'm not so sure about that. before her injury she was nowhere close to dominating going into rio, and she's 26 now. frankly, i think the ws game has become too fast for her. no way she'll be able to handle it when she's 29 in 2020.
     
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  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Learn some tricks from Lin Dan and Chen Long about how to control the game.
     
  14. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    not as easy as they make it look.
     
  15. leejunlong999

    leejunlong999 Regular Member

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    do quote the korean played with the 'nothing to lose attitude' great plays


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    Yup. That's correct. The WS game is extremely physical these days.

    Despite of all the amazing skills of TZY, her quick movement on court and her stamina to sustain grueling matches are no less important in her success.

    AY caught up HBJ on skills but HBJ did not catch up AY on physical endurance. So AY is now clearly ahead of HBJ. That's another clear example.

    Chinese players had been known for hard training. This may no longer be the case. Or that they are training in the wrong way. That must get some attention, quickly.
     
  17. kelana

    kelana Regular Member

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    The CHN defeat to the KOR team in the finals was truly shocking and I believe such outcome was beyond the expectation of the most badminton observers. I didn't saw any one seriously said that the KOR would win the Cup with good confidence in foresight [if any they were just "expectations/wishes"]. In fact so many went ducking and they just suddenly crowded the board when the tide was clearly reversed... :) Also with regard to the facial expressions of the KOR coaches during the last two matches as captured under camera, they didn't show the kind of faces with high confidence, worry-free ones...

    So in flashback what went wrong with the games? With the CHN players?
    Indeed came to the court after leading 2-1 and having fielded the arguably two strongest pairs that CHN had under disposal were quite assuring beforehand.

    Let's start with WD.

    Before the match, the H2H indicated a very clear lead by Chen QC/Jia YF over Chang YN/Lee SH, 6-1, with the CHN pair won all the last six matches

    Head to Head of Chen QC Jia YF vs Chang YN Lee SH pre-Sudirman Cup (BWF page has not yet updated the stat until this hour)
    [​IMG]

    What went wrong indeed? Or the KOR pair just suddenly played "one superb match of their lives" being the clear underdog before the game kicked off, and being under bigger pressure for trailing 1-2, a nothing to lose approach? I don't think Chen QC/Jia YF lost their steam due to the dramatic match against the JPN pair the earlier night. And couldn't blame their selection into this match for everything before the match showed they're most suitable one (the other option, Bao YX/Tang JH even never play Chang YN/Lee SH).

    In reconstructing the WD match mentally in mind, I do think the match and the outcome was quite a matter of destiny play, a fateful match. Using the if clause... supposed Chen QC/Jia YF succeeded to take the first game (lost in 19-21), then thing might be quite different...

    For the XD, I am unable to describe it better that the succinct post by @Nine Tailed Fox above (can't locate the post itself except the quote, is it deleted or posted somewhere?) did describe the devastating situation yesterday:

    "5) XD - Worst of the lot. 5 matches played, measly 2 matches won and almost lost to a 16 year old Indian rookie. Champions on paper and flop on the field. The final best described by Steen Pederesen :
    "One became statue in the front
    One paralysed at back."
    When pressure was piled, this department crack....
    .
    "


    What do you think?
     
    #1157 kelana, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  18. Desireless

    Desireless Regular Member

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    Well...where to start.

    Actually I'll start with WS. To be honest, I've never liked SJH as a player. Despite being consistently in the top 10, I always found her skills uninspiring and her stamina lacking (almost like a Korean version of SY). But I had to admit that her performance in sudirman cup was quite impressive. Not only did she play every single WS match for her team, she played 2 very close matches against WR1 TTY and still had the goods to play (and win) against RI and HBJ (see my post in the tournament discussion about shame on SWH). So she had my respect now as a player. HBJ on the other hand...clearly has better racquet skills but her stamina and accuracy are just deplorable. How CBA could allow her condition to remain at this level for so long is beyond imagination, let alone fielding her in such a crucial final instead of a clearly fitter CYF. Anyway, easy win for Korea.

    WD...yes the h2h was 6-1, but most of the matches were relatively close...not blow-outs in favour of China. And notice that the most recent matches ahead of sudirman were in fact very close in score and could have gone either way. In addition, the Korean pair won the all England in the intervening period, which not only indicates a rise in their overall level of play against the entire international field, but is also a great boost of confidence for the players. Belief is huge in sport; and knowing you can win the biggest SSP title in the world has a huge positive psychological impact. Secondly, CHN WD won a major victory the night before against Japan. Likely for political and rivalry reasons that match was considered a big deal to them and the country. As such they probably threw all their energy and "soul" so to speak into winning that match, and probably spent a lot of energy celebrating it afterwards. I had similar thoughts after LCW beat LD in the Rio semi final and had to face CL the next day...it's a lot to ask to win two extremely high stakes matches one day after another.

    Then XD...well, I think it was all about psychological effects on performance. On their day, Lu/Huang are world class and can take on any of the top 5 pairs, as demonstrated by their recent SS titles. But on this day, they were playing for much more than their own satisfaction. They literally had the entire weight of their team (who was collared with the expectation of nothing less than gold medal finish) and the entire country (many of whom would rather eat broken glass than watch their national team lose a major to Japan or South Korea, sorry to say). And I think that pressure had Huang jittery and Lu a shaky wreck. Korea on the other hand were never favourites...in fact I'd say they were the opposite, with all the key retirements ahead of the tournament. So the WR14 Korean XD pair had no weight of expectation from their country or from their team other than maybe "try your best and have a good game". In addition, the male XD player had just been pummelled in MD earlier and was probably itching for redemption so that was probably extra motivation. He literally looked like he was going non-stop super saiyan mode for EVERY single shot he played the entire match.

    Anyway those are my thoughts...the rest is history.

    Congratulations KBA and hope that CBA can get back to form as soon as possible.
     
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  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Not only that. The Korean doubles player was up to match speed, not tired, had no pressure to win the doubles. If the team had said, 'if you lose men's doubles, it is no big deal but use it to prepare for the mixed.' that gives a definite edge on being mentally relaxed on TV court and on pace for the final mixed game.

    With more experience, I expect China to bounce back. I hope we get just as good nail biting finishes in the next SC.
     
  20. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    My analysis of the Chinese losing the final tie lies in 2 players with defensive weaknesses that the KOR team was smart to capitalize upon.

    The MD and MS points were sure to go to CHN, leaving KOR with only WS at that juncture.

    In WD, Chen QingChen is such a strong player that Jia YiFan by default is the weaker partner and rightly so, the KOR WD were able to take advantage of her weaker defence in 2 games. The JPN WD were not as aggressive in attack in their SF match as the KOR pair in the final.

    In XD, Lu Kai who's incredibly attacking with higher shots above the tape, however is surprisingly weak when he has to return any shots below tape or close to his tall body. Even Steen commented on this early during the match. The KOR team saw this and the rest is history.

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