Badminton in Japan

Discussion in 'Japan Professional Players' started by gaDEfan, May 6, 2007.

  1. Cunning Linguist

    Cunning Linguist Regular Member

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    I mentioned it somewhere else, but he didn't look in his best ever shape physically and that would imo support your presumption. If he had been extra motivated, he would at least have gotten into outstanding physical shape, even if match fitness was an issue.
    Maybe deep down the pressure and the expectation was too much (we can't forget that Momota's "redemption attempt" amplified the normal pressure that a world #1 in any sport has anyway, when they want to win home Olympics.) and he also knew after the AE that match fitness was not achievable.

    As for the coaching... the bottom line is a terrible final result (that much can probably be said already, barring possible good results by NO, AY, and YW) and players who are still as nervous and as insecure as they were years ago. Very few players also seem in top condition physically. Long term coaching thus can not be judged favourably.

    I also have to question match preparation. KM led quite comfortably in both games. 10-5 in the first, 11-8 in the second. Whatever Nakanishi said or advised then, obviously didn't work. On top of that, KM looked really puzzled by the placement of Heo's shots. He lost many rallies because he had not the slightest clue where the shuttle would go and was late to move as a consequence. Lack of match fitness, yes, but it was so obvious that the analysis of the opponent prior to the game can't have been too great, either.

    I'm genuinely worried about the human being Kento Momota now. Given the many emotional setbacks he has faced over just a couple of years, I can not see him not fall into a hole. I hope he has good support system.
     
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  2. kurako

    kurako Regular Member

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    Interviewer: Do you have any thoughts about the future?
    Momota: At the moment, I am not thinking about it.
     
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  3. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    wasn't the lack of practice due to the gov't not allowing it as opposed to nba not wanting to do it? nat'l health was a higher priority than nat'l sports...?
    1. who should replace him?
    2. what changes to the whole set-up would you suggest?
     
    #2223 samkool, Jul 28, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
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  4. yuon

    yuon Regular Member

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    I am heartbroken for him, and I couldn't sleep a wink after the match even though it was 5 am my time because different scenarios were going through my mind of how he must be feeling right now. Fate must be trying its hardest to keep him away from an Olympics medal. First, the enforced absence in Rio, and now the car accident and all the cancelled tournaments. All the media attention was definitely not helping. The last time I remember seeing him that clueless on court was during the Sudirman Cup final, with all the pressure on his shoulders. It was just so hard to watch. I just hope he can get enough emotional support and get through this setback and come back the Momota we all knew. There is still a lot more for him to accomplish.
     
  5. terrynguyen121988

    terrynguyen121988 Regular Member

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    I've just slept 3.5 hours (2:35 am) and walk up at 6 am.

    Don't know because of Momota or eager of Watanabe.

    I hope Momota can forget it, there are many tournaments ahead waiting for him. The team also need him so much.
     
    #2225 terrynguyen121988, Jul 28, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  6. kurako

    kurako Regular Member

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    Nah. The Government-imposed 'recommendations' slackened off in August 2020; this is clearly manifested by the prevalence of baseball and football matches ever since. As far as badminton is concerned, a power struggle ensued between Park Joo Bong and the individual corporate teams. PJB wanted national team members to assemble for joint training sessions; and the latter demurred citing the risk to their players' health. Needless to say, as the NBA has very little clout over the corporations, this is a struggle that the association lost. As far as I am concerned, the players really needed to meet more (not necessarily in Tokyo), not only for physical training, but also for the purpose of emotional support.

    Good question! I would love to see what a total 'outsider', such as, for example someone from Denmark, could do. Having said that, the weight of organisational power in Japan would probably fetter any potential progress. If we are talking in domestic terms, then over the past five years there have been two corporate team success stories, and the head coaches could be candidates. NTT-East's Suka Takahiro, who rebuilt the team after the casino debacle, and persona non grata, Imai Akihiro, of Marusugi Bluvic ilk.

    This is a difficult. A total organisational restructure is called for, i.e., one that enables the NBA to at least enjoy parity with the individual corporate teams over the players. At the same time, as the corporate teams are the actual employers of the players, they need to perceive a benefit in such a restructure. I am not sure what the patterns of employment in other countries are. Is there a model country?
     
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  7. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    ah, right... i remember now. there's not much you can do if you don't own the players.
    like i've said thousands of times: the sport needs to be restructured. no more 'teams'. badminton is an individual sport. bwf's current bylaws turn countries into armies and players into soldiers. it will never change though. bwf is run by a bunch of spineless clueless imbeciles who are more concerned about having a job than doing what is right for the sport.
    nope. the only way to grow the sport is to eliminate 'teams'. for now nba's system is the best for the players based on bwf's current bylaws.
     
  8. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Are the bad results of most of the Japanese players can be blamed on the lack of tournaments at the highest level? I am not sure anymore. The issue must be somewhere else too. China is killing it and like Japan, they missed on most tournaments since covid happened. Yet they met strong opponents and most of them are still advancing towards a medal, including Chen Long who was long forgotten. In fact, they already secured a Gold and Siver medal in XD.
     
  9. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

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    As Kurako said, Olympic Qualified shuttlers of Japan could not train because their companies who own them did not let them wander freely, citing the health risk for their employees.
     
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  10. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

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    Pullela Gopichand of India can also be considered. He is called the Pep Guardiola of Indian Badminton.
     
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  11. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    There are major changes to consider then if that is really the issue. Talk about corporate limitations... Japan had one of the top team for the OG! What a waste. I won't blame the players but, if NO could win that thing, I just hope more would follow her trail. After all, may be the change can come from the players themselves. KM can still win Paris.
     
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  12. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    I don't think you let a golden egg like Park Joo Bong walk away. South Korea will probably take him back immediately as their national coach.

    Given the situation with the pandemic, it was difficult for the Japanese team to travel to international tournaments, especially since Japan is low on the supply for the vaccine. And then the Japanese team tried to travel to Thailand back in January, but Momota had covid so the entire team had to cancel, which was really unlucky for the rest of the Japanese team members that could not go to Thailand because of one player catching covid.

    If you zoom out and look at the success of the Japanese national team over the last few years, you would never fire someone like Park Joo Bong because if you do, Japan may go back to its old days of barely having top 10 players in the world, never mind that Japan now has top 3 players in virtually each discipline of badminton now. Just chalk up this Olympic performance to the weird circumstance of the pandemic and move on. I'm sure with Park Joo Bong at the helm, Japan will win more WC and more Thomas Cup & Surdiman Cup titles over the next few years, and if things are normal for 2024, Japan will have more chances to medal again.

    You could fire Park Joo Bong and hope that Japan continues to produce top 3 players in the world. But Japan could also go back to the level of badminton it was before Park Joo Bong took over. Why would you roll the dice? Other national teams would be salivating to hire Park Joo Bong if he left. Japan has the "golden egg" coach of badminton now and other countries will be lining up to hire Park Joo Bong if he ever leaves.
     
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  13. Swaraj Lakshman

    Swaraj Lakshman Regular Member

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    I really wanted Japan to win so many medals in this Badminton.

    Very disheartening to see XD, winning the first set and completely lost the footing in Flick serves from 2nd set onwards.

    One Mens Doubles--tried flick serves in wrong time and team as such was not in their best. May also be attributed the fact of such short interval for Yuta,agreed he is young but still the order of play could have been more considerate.

    Second , MD came back one game down, strong in 2nd set only to completely fade away in 3rd,was it pressure ?

    One WD with same story as MD only difference being they tried Flick Serves at the very end and that too not executed well ,granting points to opponents at such a crucial juncture. Who does that?

    Of all the teams Fukushima Hirota played well, considering the fitness of Hirota.

    All in all ,today Flick serves some way or the other contributed to almost all losses of Japan.

    WS-NO always displays the fighting spirit and hunger to win which are evident in her games.

    Hoping Japan to come back stronger and get the deserving victories in future.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
     
  14. fanyy

    fanyy Regular Member

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    PBJ and some of coaching staff needs to go. They've got massive tunnel vision. It was already apparent during the Sudirman Cup. Much respect for what PBJ has done for Japan but there's nothing more he can do for the team.
    Terrible luck for fukuhiro because they were the pair favored for gold. We all know nagamatsu can't beat anyone but their fellow teammates.
    No surprises from XD. Fact that Japan only got one pair shows how the system needs some change.
    MD can excel mainly when the other top pairs are having bad days.
    Let's hope the WS ladies will give miraculous performances.
     
  15. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    I find it too simplistic to blame it all on the coach. The change needs to come from the higher level, the whole organisation and NBA/corporations/coach thing is not working (my opinion) at this level. Japan has tremendously improved in the last decade, maybe it's time for its structure to adapt to the highest level.
     
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  16. kurako

    kurako Regular Member

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    No-one is blaming PJB alone for this debacle. As I mentioned in a previous post, there is a delicate balance of power between the NBA and the individual corporate teams who are actually the employers of of most of the players. Unfortunately, the last year has shown that the NBA (of which the head coach is an employee), in reality, holds very little sway over the corporations, who, for the most part, withheld Bird Japan players from participating in national training sessions, not to mention the Denmark Open.

    Of course, organisational restructuring is called for. But, on top of this, someone needs to take responsibility for the fiasco unfolding in these Olympics. And the natural person to this is no other that the head coach. PJB's contract has already been extended to to March 2025, hence, I can't see him being dismissed. But considering the level of Bird Japan in 2018~2019, he and Zeniya Kinji have a lot to answer for.

    Finally, let me add that, just like PJB ALONE is not to blame for the debacle at Tokyo 2020, the successes of Bird Japan over the last few years are not due to him ALONE either. Many factors are at work here, most prominently the initiative to strengthen youth training since the first decade of the century. This, I believe, greatly contributed to the emergence and cultivation of talent, such as Momota, Okuhara, Yamaguchi, and Watanabe Yuta.

    Is someone who has been at the helm as head coach for over sixteen years able to generate the necessary changes? Somehow, I don't think so.
     
  17. fanyy

    fanyy Regular Member

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    I'm not saying that PBJ should be blamed for everything. That's why I mentioned the lack of XD pairs, a result of the corporations and the difficulty for more pairs to form.
    What I really wanted to see was more initiative from PBJ to make some changes since he has been the coach and part of the NBA for such a long time. During the brink of the Olympics when your team has loads of potential to medal, you have to take more drastic actions. Will he speak out about the problems and ways to improve the rigid system during the post media presser? Or is it because he is also part of the problem and either fails to see it or stopped caring to a point due to the lack of power?
    Perhaps I'm just used to European football managers with their blunt and not so subtle ways of speaking out against everything :D
     
  18. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    perfect summary and opinion!

    i still consider japan a young 'team' in badminton. by 'team' i mean as a country striving for the highest level alongside the traditional power teams china, indonesia & malaysia, not the age of the players. all we talked about in the 70's, 80's, 90's & 00's was china, indonesian, malaysian & korean players... throw in the odd dane & indian. park joo-bong started 16-17 yrs ago which means japan is 30-odd years behind the big guns. so when i 'zoom out' i think they're doing great. (same applies to india, what with their passionate fan base who'd love to see faster results. patience, my friends. patience.) japan has changed the big 4 into the big 5. the athletes don't look at a draw and think 'hmmm, i play japan. this will be easy...'
     
    #2238 samkool, Jul 29, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
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  19. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

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    that means creating one singular organization to finance and make final decisions based on a singular agenda. the were no apparent major conflicts between nba & the corporate employers until covid-19 arrived.

    is the japanese gov't willing to take that on? if so, can they keep politics out of it?
     
  20. RC47

    RC47 Regular Member

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    People on this forum actually think PJB should be fired because of these Olympic results? o_O yikes

    Momota - car accident, covid, over a year without tournaments

    Nozomi - played well, lost a marathon match to a slimmer He Bingjiao (who beat Chen Yufei during internal competitions), nothing wrong with this loss

    Fukushima/Hirota - injured with a massive knee brace

    Watanabe/Higashino - lost to Wang/Huang, again nothing wrong here, China has been dominating this category

    Watanabe/Endo - his XD and MD match were scheduled 2 hours apart, absolute brain-dead thinking by the organizers

    Matsumoto/Nagahara - the only real "loss" in my opinion, they had so many match points in that 3rd game which they couldn't convert, but this was also their first Olympic appearance

    Obviously not the ideal results but no reason to let go of PJB. He transformed Japan from a weak nation to one that now stands atop the podium at most tournaments.
     
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