Bad mistake by umpire in MD final

Discussion in 'World Championships 2009' started by Akim1, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. Jonc108

    Jonc108 Regular Member

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    when I was watching the match live on TV, it appeared that most of LYD's serve were above waist but were not fouled... anyone got the video and see the replay to prove (or disapprove) this???
     
  2. yen_saw

    yen_saw Regular Member

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    Yes LYD needs to work on his serve, KOR lost many unnecessary points this way.
     
  3. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Alright, you can claim that's 2 vs. 10 if you want to. It's not like all KOR (LYD in particular) serve did not raise up any questions as many others have pointed out. Some times, it's very hard to determine, when in the "gray area".

    I remember last year in a tournament (sorry, bad memory), ZYW/XZB has lost 11 points to a RUS pair, due to service fault, mostly on ZYW's side. Later on, they protested, as ZYW is short, and you can not use normal height standard to judge what's the height for her "waist" level. However, there's nothing can be done after the match, either.

    So, suck it up, and try to improve on your own. If you have to face 10, let it be, and show if you are ready for it or not. :cool:
     
  4. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    All the could've, should've, would've..

    - It was the Umpire's responsibility to keep track of the details of the game (e.g. who's serving, which side of the court, the score etc.) as the players were too focused on the match and esp. in this highly intense match.
    - I don't blame the KORs for not protesting as they would have been too focused in that last few pts of the game. I wonder if CY & FHF were aware of the error during that junction of the game??
    - It is a bit unfortunate also. I don't think the original poster meant to say it "boldly" or put "too much" emphasis on the Umpire's error as the deciding factor in the whole match. I also could imagine what would've happened if we were to put CY & FHF in LYD & JJS' shoes and they were the ones who suffered from the error (reverse role).
    - True, LYD & JJS had their chances to clinch the match. Btw, they only had 2 match pts, once at 22-21 and 23-22.
     
    #24 ctjcad, Aug 18, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2009
  5. narnia

    narnia Regular Member

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    Good observation..

    Have u guys seen the photos of jump smashing by any players? They seem to make a very big and high jump; but actually not. That's all about the camera angle.

    You can't exactly notice esp. the real HEIGHT by the pictures from cameras. That's actually happening in the service heights like in jump smashes.

    If you want to know more; check the services of esp. these guys: TBH, LWW, etc. All their services are acceptable even though they seem to too high to the sights of TV or video viewers.


    :)
     
    #25 narnia, Aug 18, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2009
  6. modious

    modious Regular Member

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    From the side view, it appears that LYD serves were a little too high.
     
  7. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Good explanation, Narnia. All this while from the TV camera, I wondered why LWW's serves which looks very high above the waist were not faulted. Thanks.
     
  8. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Jumping very high to execute a smash has its advantages provided the player does it well. In order to do this he has to be very fit and must have practised the jumpsmash almost to perfection in his training.

    Imagine if he should land awkwardly, that would probably mean the end of the match for him if he should break a bone, receive an ankle sprain, tear a leg muscle, especially the Achilles tendon, etc.

    So the higher he jumps, the greater the risk and his smash may also be returned by his opponent.

    If you have a chance to watch some very old tapes, say in the sixties, of the old masters, I think they hardly jumpsmash. It seems the jumpsmash was first credited to "the King" of INA. ;) But some also said it was "the Thing" of CHN/INA who first demonstrated it. :D
     
  9. drifit

    drifit newbie

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    yes, camera's angle of view does affect what we see.
    if there is a service fault, a slow-mo(sometimes play for us to view) from the service judge's eye level. one can notice the head of service judge. the camera view normally is slightly above the service judge's head.
     
  10. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt827rAhmzE

    i didn't watch this match, only the above youtube link.
    From what i've saw, CY/FHF look pumped and LYD/JJS look nervous and edgy.
    On the service fault, my belief is that service judges are usually more lenient on tight games but would call it if the foul was very obvious and blatant. To me, LYD was trying to push his luck what he can get away with. Too bad, he got caught.If a chinese player does it, he would be accuse of trying to cheat. Just like when chinese player raises hand to pause service. in this case, one can't blame the fouled service by LYD on the chinese side so some blame it on the service judge.

    that last service foul by lyd was to execute a drive serve, a stroke that benefited greatly by a 'higher' contact point.
     
    #30 cooler, Aug 19, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  11. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Just saw the video..

    ..(thank you cooler for the video link)..and the incident of the Umpire not paying attention of who's supposed to stand where. It happened when the score was at 26 all and the KORs were serving to FHF. After the CHN pair got their match pt and abt to serve, Cai Yun was a bit surprised when the Umpire told him it was FHF's serve. They acknowledged and FHF moved back to the odd court to serve.

    Personally, it's not really bad, i mean not a blatant one. Just a moment of concentration lapse by the Umpire.

    As for LYD's service, i thought he's been serving a tad bit above his waist esp. after watching the Semifinals match vs. KKK & TBH.
     
    #31 ctjcad, Aug 19, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  12. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    funny that nokh88 didn't mind those uncalled fouled before.
     
    #32 cooler, Aug 19, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  13. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    and LYD got the nerve to compliant about KKK's service was high toward the end of their SF match!
     
  14. avataar

    avataar Regular Member

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    LYD & JJS serving

    some photos of the korean duo serving
     

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  15. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    The pictures seem to show the server started legally. Problem comes when they first hit the shuttle. Whether they contact it below waist level, ie, the lowest rib, which many will agree is very difficult to see, unless you have X-ray eyes. So most times the service judge will have to use his discretion and this is subjective.

    I have observed that low serves are less likely to be called 'fault' compared to high or flick serves. For the latter the tendency is for the server to move his shuttle-holding hand a bit higher, maybe to gain more momentum. It is this last minute quick action to flick the bird high that is prone to being called a fault service.
     
  16. vorxaw

    vorxaw Regular Member

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    In that first photo, it definately looks illegal, cant be sure about the others
    In a side note I have a question about the "racket pointing down rule"

    does that mean
    A: the line along the shaft, from the cone to the head is pointing down
    B: the vector normal to the plane of the face is pointing down

    thanks

    edit: wooo 100th post, glad i used it on something somewhat useful
     
  17. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    I think 'A' will suffice, so long as the shaft is pointing downwards, not sideways or upwards.

    This is to ensure that the racket head is not above the wrist when it comes into contact with the shuttle.

    But the other 'ingredients' must be fulfilled to make it a legal serve, namely, the bird must not be hit above waist level, the serve must be a continuous action (you can't stop the forward motion with your racket holding hand midway and resume the action) and you can't lift your feet above ground. :D
     
  18. vorxaw

    vorxaw Regular Member

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    ah, thanks for clearing that up, I actually thought it was B, meaning you would have to "slice/cut" the shuttle over, pretty difficult
     
  19. bad_fanatic

    bad_fanatic Regular Member

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    I don't know about you, but in my eyes and the eyes of many. The MD WC Finals ended in one of the best matches ever. It was a thriller! To me, I don't think don't it can get any better.

    Both side received the same amount of service fault. Nearing the end of the 3rd when CY did a flick server and got JJS off guard, is a different flick then LYD to CY. LYD is more like a driving serve that everyone hates.

    Over it's just a great game. It's not our job to call the serve or correct the position of the players when serving or receiving, so we should just enjoy the match.
     
  20. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    I think most of us will agree that it was a thrilling match and we all enjoyed it. The result could well go the other way. But rules are rules and they are made so that all players will be treated fair and square and no one should have undue advantage over their opponents.

    Because the umpire made a mistake and it was not corrected in time, the Koreans have somehow been disadvantaged as the rules were not adhered to strictly and as such the umpire lend himself to criticism.
     

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