Arrogance in Badminton...

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Rob3rt, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    Do you guys think that arrogance is a common thing in badminton? More so than in other sports?

    I tried a few sports in my childhood but never stuck to them until I tried Badminton so I don't really have a comparison. But I noticed a lot of arrogance, hubris and discrimination in Badminton in different clubs. Even from players towards players that are in the same league but think they are so much better; unfounded, though. If the level of play differs and the players are at least one league apart it gets worse.

    Maybe you want to share your experiences. Have you noticed it, too? How does it compare to other sports? Obviously it depends on the country and club and other circumstances. Looking forward to your responses.
     
  2. - иεvvεи٭т -ツ

    - иεvvεи٭т -ツ Regular Member

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    Yes I would say so from my experience, I've played other sports growing up like basketball and table tennis and I think badminton has the most cockiness and arrogance in comparison because it can be a very individual and showboating sport at times.

    The social sessions can be a real toxic environment, people judge and compare from the sidelines as they wait for there turn; but the thing is their skills aren't world's apart, it just seems to be a sense of entitlement they think they have.

    It can be quite cliquey too; you always see people reluctant to mix with new faces or walking off if someone isn't "their level," even though it's suppose to be a social session. Having said that; there are some really nice people as well.
     
  3. BadBadmintonPlayer

    BadBadmintonPlayer Regular Member

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    Yes and no. I have had very mixed experiences with badminton, but most of them are very nice. I don't think you can compare badminton with team sports like football. In tennis, people are much more arrogant than in badminton.
     
  4. kakashihatake

    kakashihatake Regular Member

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    A normal competitive player don't want to play with someone level a lot lower than him or a lot higher than him.

    U just get bored when u play with ppl who aren't serious like u, or someone who's too good for u.

    It is not arrogance, it is just what it is this sports about.

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
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  5. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    As the OP stated: he talks about arrogance of people which play only 1-2 division away, which is not such a case they these games turn out very boring and can be very tight depending on synergy for doubles.

    I had also the chance to play sometimes versus a 1. Bundesliga Woman (highest german division, international players play there) which come to my court with a smile and gave a me decent and tight XD game. I don't play near that level and yes she hold herself a bit back, but she still enjoyed the game. On the otherhand even club mates which played only 1 division higher than me are too arrogant to play me. Even when the stats of the past say that the games are tight, they don't have a real reason for such arrogance. And that's the point. According to my experience people who are even close your level or same level are often arrogant. People who are clearly better don't need to be toxic like that, because the roles are clear. If the roles and levels are not that clear, people need arrogance to put themselves on thrones.
     
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  6. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    Good point. Doesn't even need to be 1 league difference, even within the same league. :rolleyes:
     
    #6 Rob3rt, Oct 30, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  7. - иεvvεи٭т -ツ

    - иεvvεи٭т -ツ Regular Member

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    Mmm I think that's the wrong mentality for such a social session though... if it's a really mixed level and you're not getting the games you want then it sounds like a more competitive session would be better.

    It happens a lot here where a group of better/ competitive players monopolizes a court at a social session, they know no one is going to break the rotation because everyone else thinks they're too strong; especially when they're carrying on after every point as if they're playing the world championships or something. Yet these players are the ones who complain about people being not good enough for them or walk off when someone new steps on at the same time as them, they should really just rent their own court but you know they won't because they love the the attention of people watching their games, it's just the way the sport is with the theatrics and showboating.


    Agreed, playing with the people who are actually at that national/ international level who come to social sessions know what they're in for so they're usually happy to mix and play with a smile regardless of who you are. It's the others who think they're at that level that just need to make sure you know that too...
     
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  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Not sure. Hard for me to judge.

    I don't actively promote myself but I have found myself being asked to play many times.

    Even last week, I played a friendly match with a completely new group of people and they kept asking me to play at other times after our match finished.


    I have to admit sometimes I don't want to play just social games. If I only get to play twice a week and need to prepare for the competitions, there is no point in playing many social games during my preparation phase.
     
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  9. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    Well, the whole badminton concept in HK is from my understanding totally different compared to @Rob3rt und my own enviroment. When I'm in Hong Kong, I look for the groups at my level (there are many shades of levels) and join. Everybody is close enough to have decent games so this problem don't get shown, as long as everybody got categorized right and strict.

    For us germans, we need to book private courts with friends to play or need to become a member of a club for a monthly fee. These social clubs can have players which participate international down to hobby players. The full spectrum. You have also dynamics and struggle inside the team organisation, you need to claim much more etc. Sometimes at the same time, so a mix is inevitable. That a beginner need to play with a sponsored player. I normally say "schwitzen statt sitzen", which means "sweating instead of sitting". No such fine tuned categorized groups, this is the reason why our problems here occur. Badminton is here not very popular, not many plays it, Germany is not so dense peopled like Hong Kong, you can be happy to find somebody who plays it. We don't have so many opportunities to play at our location. You can find 1-2 clubs and join or drive or do something different which is more popular here.

    And since badminton is so unpopular here, many clubs don't have own halls. As a player you have less options, so everybody here need to find arrangements, while you can dodge in Hong Kong. In Hong Kong I had sometimes real trouble to decide which group I should go. They had groups from morning to late night all surounded 3-6 stations away from my hotel or flat. Mostly I decided on the location of a good restaurant. Frankly I never got such issues in Hong Kong and don't have such issues with my only chinese group with invitation, even beeing the only european. IMO it is a typical german/european problem due the circumstances, mentality and enviroment according to my experiences.
     
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  10. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    Are you just talking about higher level players not wanting to play with lower level players or are you talking about general bad attitude/arrogance/behaviour?

    I think I can sympathise with stronger players not wanting to play against much weaker players if they are trying to improve themselves or looking for a good game. I wouldn't necessarily call that arrogance as such. But arrogant / aggressive behaviour during games is something the club needs to deal with.

    I personally don't mind playing with anyone from beginners right up to ex-nationals. I actually find pairing or playing against weaker players a really good challenge. You can handicap yourself or force yourself to play in a certain way.
     
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  11. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    Of course I‘m talking about the latter. Not wanting to have boring, unchallenging games and wanting to improve is completely fine by me. I fully understand that. I‘m talking about behavior during games and trash-talking even before or after the games. Not aggressive per se, but passive aggressive. Unfounded arrogance. If you are better and a schmuck about it, oh well... still fine by me, not a great attitude to have, though, but okay. But when you are in the same league and not better by much or even worse and act like a child it becomes quite annoying and ridiculous. You just notice how these people feel no matter how smart and funny they try to conceal it. And it‘s precisely the ones in the middle of the spectrum, like ucantseeme stated, better than the lowest leagues but nowhere close to the top leagues. Not fun to have those guys around, even when you beat them, due to their toxic behavior.
     
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  12. kurdy_

    kurdy_ Regular Member

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    I'm not playing as much as i used to, but still competiting in tournaments and interclubs. I don't face this arrogance, and mostly find the players respectfull. I play in a little club (130 members) from beginners to intermediate (R5, in France) and the atmosphere is really friendfull too.
     
  13. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

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    Wow, 130 members is considered little club in your area. Around here 130 members would be one of the biggest. :D
     
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  14. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    Nah, we have around 180 and only 20 percent of them play regular the rest was too lazy to cancel the membership or don't even remember. :D Maybe it's a regional problem. Germans can be very harsh. ;)

    I also agree with your experience. Not the people who are miles away from my level were the arrogant ones. They are mostly the nicest and respectful players and down to earth. They aren't toxic and really enjoy every game and are supportive. The toxic ones are the slightly better or slightly worse ones, which need to create any bullshit distance from you and them, to make themself to feel like kings. I beat some of them often at my club and everyone of them didn't took the loss like a man with sportmanship, everyone wanted to make me small and feel bad, because I only was often lucky that they were injured or had a bad day or were ill etc. :rolleyes:

    I normally play with everybody who is a friendly person, regardless which level. I don't get happy to play beginners 3 times per week or a full night, but if they need a fourth person to play a doubles match, why not one of those matches out of 10 hours badminton? When I started with badminton I was surrounded by very decent players, which taught me alot and showed my a good and friendly attitude. They include me in their games, respected me when I was the worst player on the court and this made me feel that there is something good in us humans. And now I pass this good deeds back to other players as well. I like to play good games, but a cool down/warm up match with some hobby players don't make me worse player. Everybody knows that if they ask me, I don't play around, if they except it, there is no reason for me to say no. Everybody of us need to remember why we play at our current level when we remember a decade back.
     
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  15. Borkya

    Borkya Regular Member

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    Yeah, I agree with everyone here. The highest level people are very secure in their abilities and aren't at all arrogant or rude. They are happy to play with you, and don't begrudge anyone a win or loss.

    I find the upper-intermediate to lower expert level players the most arrogant. Because they have enough wins to backup some of their self-importance, but can't handle any real competition. In fact there is a group that plays in a different court than me that is ALL like that. They only enter the local competitions for the community I live in, and avoid any city-wide or bigger competitions to protect their egos. So they only enter the lower level ones, win them, and avoid any medium to high level competitions. Then they walk around boasting of their "high win" record as if they are an amazing club.

    And as a woman, I get a lot of arrogance from men making assumptions or comments about how games with me are easy, or playing with a woman is boring, or whatever. Many guys just kinda start off assuming if they are playing men's doubles against a mixed doubles pair, the win is gonna be easy. This used to bother me a lot but now I beat them more often than not, so it's okay. ;)



    And @ucantseeme, I know we've argued in the past, but anyone who chooses courts based on good food nearby basically means we should be best friends. That's the way to play badminton in asia correctly! First choose the food, then the court. :D
     
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  16. ownz.uno

    ownz.uno Regular Member

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    Arrogance I can stand that attitude, but a partner who very un-supportive (always blame partner and pressurize his partner) is the worst people to play with.. is this consider arrogant too?
     
  17. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    IMO I wouldn't call it arrogance, I would call it lack of the skills to be a good doubles player and often these guys who blame the partner can't take the echo. IMO in this moment, when somebody puts a blame on his partner there are always two sides of the coin. First, was the partner all the time missing easy shots or make real errors and he put his partner perfectly with all partners strength in the game, or did he select his shots, executed with poor quality, which didn't put the partner in a good light and made him always struggle? This is a huge difference to me. When I play doubles I answer for us as a pair following questions before the match:

    1. What are our strengths?
    2. What are our weak areas?
    3. What are our opponents strengths?
    4. What are their weak areas?

    Normally this makes every game more enjoyable for me, if I create/structure a game this way. Sometimes, if a game doesn't go well, I don't blame, but accept for upcoming games, that this partner and I don't have the synergy to perform well and don't have the same way of thinking to structure and design a game. I speak this always out. I await different things and put more effort into a fixed partnership for a season and torunaments or a random partner I play with 6 times per year.

    I would call it arrogance if somebody bully/blame nearly every partner at same level, while he don't want to find a dialogue. I encourage every partner I play with, even if he/she had a really bad day and make many unforced errors.
     
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  18. ownz.uno

    ownz.uno Regular Member

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    This kind of people only blame everybody and silent when he did mistake... I'm talking about leisure game here not in competitive play..
     
  19. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    I don't understand this leisure games and competive play difference and the reason why everybody should act different between the circumstance? Can occur in leisure games and competitive games. For me are games with friends or club nights still leisure game, but it doesn't mean that everybody left his ambition, seriousness and skills at home and just put it in the bag for tournaments or league games. When I play regardless if tournament, game day, rent a court with friends or club night, I play always with the same intentions of giving a good performance and a decent game. If I can't fulfill that for myself I don't play.

    I normally experience this blaming in leisure more, than in competitive play. In competitive play you want always a partner which fits and every misunderstanding got killed before in training. From my own partnerships it's a more professional and purposeful communication. I'm talking about leisure games, when everybody needs to play with everybody. Expectations can there very different, play styles as well and this also lead to more errors and confusion, which is a good source for blaming.
     
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  20. ownz.uno

    ownz.uno Regular Member

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    My post is more to your 2nd paragraph.. leisure for me you play with anybody while competitive you play with your real partner with more serious game and higher expectation - tournament or training game.

    What I don't understand why people behave like that in leisure game which we should be play in more relax mode and lower expectation (I don't deny sometime we have very good and intense game too - if 4 players on court all good). This is part of arrogance?
     
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