I remember there were thread talking about "why more yonex broken than other brands". Many of us believe it's relative, as there are more Yonex in the market to begin with. Same thing applied here. Why we see more CHN players do WO, espeically in later round. Isn't there similar "logic / intelligence" involved, as they have MORE representatives in the later rounds??? Put this way, say nation XXX has only 1 (A) player in final 4. CHN has 3 players (B, C and D)in final 4. The semi draw is A vs. C, B vs D. Then, both A and B don't feel well due to injuries. When A does WO, he's fine. When B does not feel well, he's a cheater. Come on, tell me how B going to do to avoid the "cheating claim". So, the "intelligenc" we put in is, if you feel sick, you'd better know who's ur opponent. If you see your teammate name, you'd better kill urself. Otherwise, the fans going to kill u anyway, plus you are a "cheater". God...
Honestly speaking, if the WO is for tactical reason, it can never be proven. But if WO is due to injury, it can be easily proven. The correct questions to ask are: How many CHN v CHN matches were there? How many of those involve WOs? How many CHN v (other) matches were there? How many of those involve CHN giving WO? Those are only the simple questions. I am not bothered enough to do the research. But if someone were to be persistent enough, I think those are the right questions. Of course, more complicated questions will be like: If CHN v CHN meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs? If CHN all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs? The purpose of these questions is see what is the statistics if the title is assured.
This is spot-on. And I would venture the following guess with a big dose of confidence: -If CHN v CHN meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs? Nil -If CHN all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs? heaps especially if the other semi-finals involves non-Chinese player.
That's totally different case. CH's withdraw obviously benefitted BCL, who is his TEAMMATE, and is thus unfair to PG. On the other hand, there is no reason why TH would like to help LD. Another example is PG's withdraw to CY, there is no reason for PG to help CY. btw, I don't agree with the proposal that CH should be checked. Players should have the right to withdraw if they feel playing the game could harm their bodies.
That's a good comment. To make it more fair, we also need to get the data of all the nations, not just that of China. -If Nation X v Nation X meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs? -If Nation X all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs? It is a common sense that if I am injured and I will face my teammate, it is easier for me to make a decision and WO. But if it is to face players from other countries, I will probably try harder and play even though I am injured. So only when you compare different nations, the data will be meaningful. Also, about your comments of CHN-CHN meeting in final, if I remember correctly, in JO 05, Lin Dan vs Chen Hong, after a few rallies, Chen gave Lin a WO due to injury.
I think we are talking about lying. The accusation is that Chen Hong or China lied about his injury. And I think TH/INA lied about his being pissed off by the line judge. Second, talking about unfair, after TH gave LD a walkover, wouldn't that be unfair to LD's next round opponent?
Exactly. I encourage someone out there (not me, I'm too lazy) to gather these data. And after that, perhaps we can surmise something.
I think you misunderstood. CH/CHN may or may not have lied, but he has a reason to lie. And the reason is that his team-mate will benefit. TH/INA has no reason to lie. He has no reason to be unfair to LD's next opponent.
Seems some of us trying to build an ideal world, and let the numbers to solve all the proble in a "far less perfect" world. If you want questions to back up "pure fairness" in the sport, let me give you several questions as well: How many non-CHN team has to bench a WC champ in XXZ or runner up in XXF, because they only given limited entries to Olympics? How many non-CHN teams has to watch a load of top 10 or top 20 ranking players can NOT even enter enough tournaments, due to limited entries? How many non-CHN team greatly benefitted from the "limited entries" to qualify to send their rank 50's player to the big stage, at the cost of CHN (or other power house's) top 10s absence. I agree that CHN's possible "team strategy" might be here or there. However, those are minors when it comes to result. They have to be GOOD enough to get into semi or finals 1st. It's not like all CHN game in the 1st round, and everyone gives others a WO, which result in half of the team auto enter next round without a match. They fight their way to there. Tell me, how many times other teams have the ability to get most of the spots in quarters to begin with? Ask yourself, why there are so many CHN vs. CHN matches to even begin with? In theory, there are equal chances to every team, if they have enough good players. If they don't have enough, is that CHN's fault?
If you lose, don't blame others get an easier draw or get a WO. I wonder in PG's career, did he ever receive a WO (from a teamamte or others). So, if he says yes, he should be auto dis-qualified for future playing? I agree that the draw is important, and sometimes, an easier early round match does give u a better chance (in a very limited degree, though). However, once you lose, only to prove that you are not fully prepared. A true champion should be mentally and physically ready for all 3 rubber set match since round 1. If s/he has to rely on "oh, make sure I have easy draw, and my opponent has to have tough draw / absolute no WO" to win, his/her success won't last too long. LD lost to Park after fight against TH, who obviously way too much better than most of other ppl's round 1 (or, much later round) opponent. So, should LD blame Park to have an "easier" draw in previous one. Therefore, LD deserve an rematch?
Like I mentioned in the other post. Tell me why CHN have many more "internal match" to begin with? It's not because CHN freely gain more entries to begin with. It's because their players are good to begin with. In theory, every team gain the same chances to reach that level, but clearly CHN is way dominate, which many ppl can't accept the fact.
I totally agree with you about the injustice of "limited entries". I will stand by you in advocating the removal of this rule. In fact I have mentioned this several times already. BUT, it is a seperate matter. You cannot lump all these things together. In fact, it does your argument no good because what you are saying is that the CHN team got cheated in one way, so they should return the favour in another way, implying that you agree what they did was actually cheating (even if it's just to correct another injustice). I don't have to ask myself why there are so many CHN v CHN matches. The answer is obvious. Because they are good. I am a big fan of the CHN team (after MAS team) because I am Chinese (race). But I am also a badminton fan, and I do not want the good matches to be forfeited just because they are playing one another. I want to see my heroes to win deservedly.
In the ideal world, we want to see everyone to be nice and honest. However, in reality, it's hardly even come close. Since it's not perfect, we need our ways to protect our own value, especially if you are the ones to be ripped off to begin with. It's like, if someone comes to beat you up on the street, will you fight back (or, at least run away) to protect your own life? Or, you say, "oh, sir, fighting is no good. We need to keep good mannar". And hope he won't cause too much damage before the cops come to save your life? Don't get me wrong, even if I sound to protect CHN team or LYB. Tell you the truth, I support Li Mao. During last TC, I was a huge supporter for Danes. My friends saw how sad I was, after I see Danes lost to CHN in probably their last try. Back to the sport itself. There are many "strategies" used by the team, which is NOT favor to the fans. Many sports, if a team leading by so much, the coach clean the bench, and send in the reserves, and let the all stars take a rest. As our fans, we want to see the stars, as that's what we paid for. However, should we sue the winning team, as they did not "try hard" to entertain us? We as fans, have totally different value than the players or coaches. It's not fair for us to judge their decision. Because, the whole thing is a "conflict of interests", and no side should blame the other. Take a look if you are LYB. How you going to face your boss and fans, if you send all your all stars to kill each other, only let others (who might face a much easier semi) to capture the final trophy?
CH have had knocked out many of his Chinese-counterpart in many occasions, one of the most recent one would be the Final of China Open last year where he beaten BCL. Why there isn’t a team order if BCL is favored by LYB. And how about the fact that CH also beaten CJ in MO, no one ever mention about that match! Why there isn't a team order to favor CJ???? I like to hear some "intelligent" explanation!!!
You are assuming that people criticise the CHN team's "dirty trick" because of jealousy. It may be true for a portion of the critics but I think there are enough lovers of the sport here who have purer intentions. I, in fact, understand why CHN wants to do this. It is purely for the overall result of the team, which is very professional. But don't ask me to agree with this. Badminton has focused too much on nationality. We should reduce that and strive for more individuality. I don't care if you call this idealistic.
If it's the final, who cares? CHN has already won, so there is nothing to be gained by walkover. As for other matches where there was no walkover, it is almost impossible for CHN team to walkover every single CHN v CHN match. Even LYB will not want to make badminton such a big farce. I'm not saying there is 100% (or even 50%) of walkovers when it comes to CHN v CHN, but the proportion is big enough to be conspicuous.
Sigh. At first I didn't believe CH gave the match to BCL. However, CH just lost a tough 3 game match against Hafiz B Hashim in Korea in less than 1 week. If CH really injured, he should just simply skip Korean open. That should quiet most of the critics.
I can use the same excuse to rob a bank. The world is out to get me, so I'm just fighting back in any way I can. A bit of the siege mentality syndrome. Two wrongs don't make a right. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. yeah, it's a bit corny, I know, but I think it's true.
I don't get this. If we are sick enough, we got sent to ER. If we just don't feel well, we might just rest it up for a few days. The thing is, we do NOT know what CH will be, if he did NOT WO, and still go on to play. He might already be in the hospital or even going through an operation. I don't think it's fair to judge other ppl's health, because what WE think. Whether the chance is great or minor, I don't encourage anyone to risk it, if that's possible. I don't see why CH should make a decision based on what others think. If he feels pain, WO. If he feels alright, fight. PG got sick, but he did not quit MO. As we thought he's on a roll, he quits KO. Did anyone say anything about "should vs. should not"??? Ok, he's not from CHN. So, whatever he does is good.
That I do not agree. Peter was hospitalized. Yet he recovered quickly and captured the title. Why then it is hard to understand that Chen Hong also recovered after some treatment? He may be still bothered by his injury. That's why he lost to Hafiz.
