4 finishing knots

[kakinami]

I was watching a video of Mr Mark Lawrence string a badminton racket and thought it was peculiar he used a starting clamp for starting his crosses. I know he has been doing it for a long time but never thought to use, or in fact didn't want to use a starting clamp to start my crosses because I always felt a starting clamp on a badminton racket was a little heavy and felt it would mark the frame from being pulled against it. But then I thought I always do 4 finishing knots on tennis, it would probably be a good idea for me to do it on badminton.

What I have been trying is starting on my left side weave my first 2 crosses, leave enough to tie and/or pull. Clamp closest to tail (left side) and pull first cross, clamp right side so first string has 2 clamps. Then I would preweave next 2 crosses because floating clamp gets in my way of cross #4 which is a shared hole and I want to make sure it doesn't cross over. Pull cross #2 and use a floating clamp to replace right side clamp then release left clamp cross #1 and clamp on cross #2. The floating clamp holds the 2 crosses and cross #2 has tension, but then we can come back to finish cross #1 later. Either to cross #5 or 7 or if you want finish but at that point my left clamp can be free so I can go back to cross #1 to remove floating clamp. In doing these steps I can have 4 finishing knots instead of 3 and a starting knot. Whatcha think?

I want to ask if Toyozouki can make a smaller and lighter badminton starting clamp. =)

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[speCulatius]

In doing these steps I can have 4 finishing knots instead of 3 and a starting knot. Whatcha think?

I use 2 finishing knots. I was really sceptical, but after trying @s_mair's variation of the Hariboto pattern, I never went back (unless it's a Yonex where the warranty is important or it's a hybrid string).

I want to ask if Toyozouki can make a smaller and lighter badminton starting clamp. =)

Since I neither see you changing to a one-piece pattern, nor do I see them doing that, have you tried using a flying clamp as a starting clamp?

 

[kakinami]

I use 2 finishing knots. I was really sceptical, but after trying @s_mair's variation of the Hariboto pattern, I never went back (unless it's a Yonex where the warranty is important or it's a hybrid string).

Since I neither see you changing to a one-piece pattern, nor do I see them doing that, have you tried using a flying clamp as a starting clamp?

May try, I dont want to put something outside the frame, maybe cut a small piece of leather like a Parnell Pad maybe and try. Since I have been trying this, might as well try to use floating clamp like a starting clamp =)

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[speCulatius]

May try, I dont want to put something outside the frame, maybe cut a small piece of leather like a Parnell Pad maybe and try. Since I have been trying this, might as well try to use floating clamp like a starting clamp =)

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Exactly, I use just a piece of cardboard (cereal box, probably) when clamping outside the frame, which I have to do with the hariboto and I do it with a flying clamp. I don't use it as a starting clamp though, so that might be a difference. The flying clamp is light and compact and so far held everything fine and without any discomfort on my side.

 

[DuckFeet]

I copied Kwun I think. Do mains. Feed crosses in at hole 11, preweave bottom 3 crosses, finishing knot (with starting clamp to hold knot in place by its tail), then double pull bottom 2 crosses. Clamp rests on frame but the knot it taking the pressure so the clamp doesn't move and I see no risk to scratch the frame.

From there carry on as normal. I end up with 4 gudgeon(ish) knots. Thanks again to Dark Hiatus for showing me through that one!

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[endFX]

I always use the same knot for starting and finishing because it just looks nicer. The bulky knot as well as the gudgeon knot work fine for this imo.

If I want to have 4 real finishing knots I go like this:
Preweave the 3 bottom crosses starting on the right side of #3 and go down.
Clamp cross #2 on the right side with fixed clamp and pull #1.
Clamp #1 with second clamp and tie off.
Repull #2 release #1 then clamp #2 on right side. Then go up as usual with weaving one ahead.
Hope this makes sense.

 

[s_mair]

The few times I do 2-piece, I do it the very boring way as shown in @kakinami's tutorial video:


So basically a simple double pull against the starting knot. I'm using the bulky knot both as starter and finishing knot and never had any issues. I don't see any advantage to go with the hassle of using a starting clamps and tying off afterwards. At least if you stay away from the reeeeally high tensions.

 

[Dekkert]

I guess he uses a finishing knot so you don't break the ankor string when pulling your first cross?
I string my rackets the same as in Alan's videos, but double pull the first two crosses. I also use 4 Gudgeon's knots to start and finish, although I recently realised that I didn't kopie the Gudgeon's knot precisely (unintentionally). It's actually a Parnell knot and then the extra loop through both loops (in the past whith thin strings I even did like a triple Parnell before the final loop through the 3 loops, but it's quite a hassle). So almost the same as the Gudgeon's, but never any problems even at 32+lbs. It's bulky but still compact and tight. Sometimes I also use a starting clamp on the tail of the starting knot just to give it a bit of counter weight when I pull the first two crosses.

What do you guys think of this starting knot Tim Willis is using on Viktor's racket? I never used it, but might try it next time.

 

[Dekkert]

I guess he uses a finishing knot so you don't break the ankor string when pulling your first cross?
I string my rackets the same as in Alan's videos, but double pull the first two crosses. I also use 4 Gudgeon's knots to start and finish, although I recently realised that I didn't kopie the Gudgeon's knot precisely (unintentionally). It's actually a Parnell knot and then the extra loop through both loops (in the past whith thin strings I even did like a triple Parnell before the final loop through the 3 loops, but it's quite a hassle). So almost the same as the Gudgeon's, but never any problems even at 32+lbs. It's bulky but still compact and tight. Sometimes I also use a starting clamp on the tail of the starting knot just to give it a bit of counter weight when I pull the first two crosses.

What do you guys think of this starting knot Tim Willis is using on Viktor's racket? I never used it, but might try it next time.

Hmmm video not available. Here's the link:

 

[Dekkert]

Hmmm video not available. Here's the link:

Dammit, how do you insert a YouTube video? Anyways, it's a clip from the Yonex channel on YouTube from 3 weeks ago.

 

[kakinami]

I copied Kwun I think. Do mains. Feed crosses in at hole 11, preweave bottom 3 crosses, finishing knot (with starting clamp to hold knot in place by its tail), then double pull bottom 2 crosses. Clamp rests on frame but the knot it taking the pressure so the clamp doesn't move and I see no risk to scratch the frame.

From there carry on as normal. I end up with 4 gudgeon(ish) knots. Thanks again to Dark Hiatus for showing me through that one!

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I want to tension each cross, no double pulling, similar to how I string tennis 2 piece =)

 

[kakinami]

I always use the same knot for starting and finishing because it just looks nicer. The bulky knot as well as the gudgeon knot work fine for this imo.

If I want to have 4 real finishing knots I go like this:
Preweave the 3 bottom crosses starting on the right side of #3 and go down.
Clamp cross #2 on the right side with fixed clamp and pull #1.
Clamp #1 with second clamp and tie off.
Repull #2 release #1 then clamp #2 on right side. Then go up as usual with weaving one ahead.
Hope this makes sense.

My problem sometimes at higher tensions, when I re-pull cross #2 my knot sinks in so I have been adding a 3rd hitch to my Gudgeon Knot. When I string tennis 2 piece I usually try to tie my mains on my mains and my crosses on my crosses, all with the Wilson Pro knot, I think =)

When my knot sinks at higher tensions, my mains usually break =(

 

[kakinami]

I guess he uses a finishing knot so you don't break the ankor string when pulling your first cross?
I string my rackets the same as in Alan's videos, but double pull the first two crosses. I also use 4 Gudgeon's knots to start and finish, although I recently realised that I didn't kopie the Gudgeon's knot precisely (unintentionally). It's actually a Parnell knot and then the extra loop through both loops (in the past whith thin strings I even did like a triple Parnell before the final loop through the 3 loops, but it's quite a hassle). So almost the same as the Gudgeon's, but never any problems even at 32+lbs. It's bulky but still compact and tight. Sometimes I also use a starting clamp on the tail of the starting knot just to give it a bit of counter weight when I pull the first two crosses.

What do you guys think of this starting knot Tim Willis is using on Viktor's racket? I never used it, but might try it next time.

I saw that knot and I tried to do it but I think I did 3 loops and then 1 loop between them, I think you are supposed to do 2 loops between them, not really sure but thought it was cool. I just want to have all 4 knots the same, at the moment so my starting knot doesn't sink I add an extra half hitch to my Gudgeon knot but recently have been trying this modified Mark Lawrence starting my crosses way, so I don't use a starting knot only 4 finishing knots.

 

[endFX]

My problem sometimes at higher tensions, when I re-pull cross #2 my knot sinks in so I have been adding a 3rd hitch to my Gudgeon Knot. When I string tennis 2 piece I usually try to tie my mains on my mains and my crosses on my crosses, all with the Wilson Pro knot, I think =)

When my knot sinks at higher tensions, my mains usually break =(

Have you tried this?
Don't release the clamp on #1 (left) while repulling #2. Then clamp #1 (right) before clamping #2 (left).

It's true that the knot on the bottom tends to sink in a bit, but no breaking string for me so far. people around here don't go for crazy high tension anyway.

Maybe I should string a spare racket at 32lbs just for the fun of it...

 

[kwun]

A flying clamp is a smaller and light starting clamp.

The regular starting clamp is designed for tennis and while works, is not the most compact when used in a badminton racket. A Yonex flying clamp can easily hold 35+ lbs.

If you are worried about marring the frame, just glue a small piece of leather at the end of the clamp. IMHO though, likely the clamp is resting against the grommet instead of the frame so it should be ok.

IMHO Mark's flow has a few flaws. I think AK's stringing flow is better.

 

[mokomima]

A flying clamp is a smaller and light starting clamp.

The regular starting clamp is designed for tennis and while works, is not the most compact when used in a badminton racket. A Yonex flying clamp can easily hold 35+ lbs.

If you are worried about marring the frame, just glue a small piece of leather at the end of the clamp. IMHO though, likely the clamp is resting against the grommet instead of the frame so it should be ok.

IMHO Mark's flow has a few flaws. I think AK's stringing flow is better.

Flaws? Which ones? Tell us more please because I'm curious about what you think is a flaw

 

[kakinami]

A flying clamp is a smaller and light starting clamp.

The regular starting clamp is designed for tennis and while works, is not the most compact when used in a badminton racket. A Yonex flying clamp can easily hold 35+ lbs.

If you are worried about marring the frame, just glue a small piece of leather at the end of the clamp. IMHO though, likely the clamp is resting against the grommet instead of the frame so it should be ok.

IMHO Mark's flow has a few flaws. I think AK's stringing flow is better.

I tried to clamp flying clamp to outside of frame, I guess it is designed to hold 2 pieces of string, it didn't hold 1 =(

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[kakinami]

Have you tried this?
Don't release the clamp on #1 (left) while repulling #2. Then clamp #1 (right) before clamping #2 (left).

It's true that the knot on the bottom tends to sink in a bit, but no breaking string for me so far. people around here don't go for crazy high tension anyway.

Maybe I should string a spare racket at 32lbs just for the fun of it...

I want to pull a little further away to prevent my knot from sinking, that is why I want finishing knots instead of what you are technically saying is a starting knot. =)

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[kakinami]

Flaws? Which ones? Tell us more please because I'm curious about what you think is a flaw

I don't think anyone's stringing has any flaws even @kwun ! Everyone's technique is different, what we do is an artform to me so everyone has a different perspective on art.

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[speCulatius]

I want to pull a little further away to prevent my knot from sinking, that is why I want finishing knots instead of what you are technically saying is a starting knot. =)

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This seems like you assume that more tension is lost when double pulling the first two crosses compared to the tension lost with a finishing knot?

If that's your assumption, why do you think so?

If it's just about using the same knot, there already were plenty suggestions of knots that can be used for both, tie-off and starting.

Also, do you hold the end of the starting knot when pulling the first cross(es)?