2016 Rio Summer Olympics - Singles Maximum Lowered from 3 to 2.

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by CantSmashThis, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. scorpion1

    scorpion1 Regular Member

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    He has been playing all along and not at all won a single major so far . I wonder when the thomas cup and asian games held ??.. Last year?? :rolleyes: .. I was mentioning about 2013 and i think all "adults" knew about it.. For sudhirman cup, only one MS is enough and hence ChenLong did his duty.. He was erratic even in superseries finals.. He lost all the group matches in superseries finals. He is staying in the soft corner of Li Yongbo i guess. That's why, he is still in the fray. Except ChenLong, MS of china is weak at present to compete top 10 players..

    "Now leave the discussion to the adults." - Lol.. This answer is more than enough for "children"...;):)
     
    #161 scorpion1, Feb 28, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2014
  2. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    More like match fixing or match throwing and as recent as OLY12 YY/WXL pulled a similar stunt. WO means no play, no show. Also, I lost touch with baddy ever since I came to Canada in 1978, and only pick up the sport in 2004 and then follows this forum.
     
  3. volcom

    volcom Regular Member

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    And China masters I think :)
     
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I will address this point seperately. I do apologise for the quote and I put in your name in error. The quote was my own rather than yours.

    The point still stands. If in the Olympic qualifying period, there are walkovers/withdrawals/throwing away points between players of the same NOC, can you really be sure that the world ranking is by merit. Saying that it probably is correct is not good enough or that the player is good enough to deserve it is also not a persuasive enough statement.

    In soccer, we sometimes see a team manager saying 'this team is too good to go down'. As rightly pointed out, the team's performance wasn't good enough over a season. In Serie A, Juventus, a top team, fixed matches and got relegated and stripped of their title in Serie A.
     
  5. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    Relax dude, we are not paid a penny that cause you to stress your wrinkles so hard in this forum, get a beer:D and chill out;) First of, this thread is about RIO and the 2-player limit that IMO is targeting CHN.

    Sigh! What I am saying is in the next 30 month, CHN OLY16 lineup may not be what we think it will be and it would not be based on WR. CHN just needs to get all her girls and boys into the top 16, then makes the calculated 2-person selection from the qualified list.

    You asked 'how a lower ranked player can overtake a higher ranked player' and get the OLY spot, quite simple, the lower ranked player just has to make the top 16, not even need to get ahead of the higher ranked player. If LD gets even the low 16th WR, he will play RIO even if there are other CHN players ahead of him.

    With 2 player limit, LYB has to make the right winning selection with no room for error and there is no certainty a higher ranked player will be selected. It is which players LYB think can deliver the gold that determines the selection. That is why I said Bao/Tang will get the nod over TQ/WZL or MJ/whoever. WXL/YY are shoo-in. WYH is not safe. WSX is out even if she is WR1 IMO.

    Re your post 'how the heck do you see a lower ranked Chinese player overtaking a higher ranked Chinese player when the lower ranked player won't be able to participate in the most ranking heavy tournaments?' that lower ranked player now is LD and he is not playing in this AE 'most ranking heavy tournament' so you are absolutely correct the lower ranked player is not getting points to overtake the higher ranking player;)

    Or if you say WZM and not LD is the lower ranked player, I checked AE14 draw, CHN is sending out WZM and DPY while LD is not playing so these 2 chaps have all the opportunity to get all those points from under the couch to move further ahead of LD.

    Actually, DPY and WZM will be entered in many SS coming up, so it is not exactly as you say they are deprived of the opportunity to collect points. The last I heard of LD is he will be back playing in a GP, and that is low ranking tournament. No matter how many points WZM and DPY get or how high up WR they are above LD, CL and LD will go to the party in RIO as BWF/IOC only send out 2 invites;)
     
    #165 OneToughBirdie, Mar 1, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  6. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Oh yes! Sorry about that! :(
     
  7. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    The point is not whether the 3rd CHN player, MS3 or WS3, is really the WR3 or not - as long as he or she is from CHN, he/she is viewed as a serious threat to anyone in the ROW. Otherwise why would BWF/IOC go to such lengths to reduce the limit to 2 per nation which specifically targeted CHN?

    Put it another way, we all know how under-rated many of the CHN players are who very often upset higher-ranked opponents. To the ROW, any CHN player, known or lesser unknown, who is competing in a major event, i.e. OLY, WC, TUC, Sudirman Cup, makes them wary, a threat no-one can afford to take lightly. So, at the end of the day, ranking as far as the Chinese is concerned is not the issue, and BWF knows that, hence this new ruling to keep out a 3rd CHN qualifier to the Olympics.

    Indeed, for all the CHN players, 3rd best downwards,not just the top 2, they are forced willy-nilly to carry a heavier burden, bear more responsibilities, make more sacrifices,etc, not only for their country but also what BWF/IOC imposes on them.

    Personally, I see this new BWF ruling as well as the previous one where 3 is allowed if they are in the top 4, as a form of artificially levelling down in the Olympics to accommodate the ROW, a sort of affirmative action. One can't help but wonder if the eventual bronze medallist is the deserving winner or not. In terms of competitiveness and sporting excellence, how is the Olympics compared with the WC or any of the SS/SSP,for that matter ?

    However, perhaps, we should concede the Olympic Games has other important elements to consider, such as the impetus for world peace, the universality principle , the world as one family, the promotion of greater understanding between cultures and peoples, participation is more important than winning - for which a wholesome balance has to be struck although these ideals have proven difficult to achieve as historical examples of boycotts and political intrusions have shown, unfortunately.
     
  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    To be honest, unless a (minor) miracle happens , Wang Zhengming has little or no hope of qualifying for the Rio Olympics. Even Du Pengyu is doubtful. Tian Houwei, not counting on him either.

    Lin Dan is such a self-disciplined man, with a deep sense of responsibility and duty towards himself,his family and his country, of remarkable willpower, tremendous fighting spirit, immense self-confidence that I am sure his comeback will prove a huge success once he sets his mind on it, nay, a 'Second Rise of Glory', barring unforeseen circumstances for, as I've always said, human affairs are most unpredictable (who would have thought Lin Dan would win his 5th WC and is now going to make another comeback?).

    As for CHN WS, at the moment, only LXR is more or less assured of an Olympic spot, the other two, namely WYH and WSX, not only do they have to contend with each other but also to watch out for a new challenger to emerge from among the rising younger cohort. I'd venture to say the following are prospective candidates as of now, viz. Liu Xin, Sun Yu, Yao Xue, He Bingjiao (I'm pushing it),in that order, and, to a lesser extent, Suo Di, Deng Xuan, Qin Jinjing (again I'm pushing it). You may add a new name if you wish, I have no problem with that as we have a precedent in LXR in the LOG'12 cycle, and there's still sufficient time for it to come about in the Rio'16 cycle.
     
  9. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Nice last paragraph.

    I don't see why different sports have differing limitations. Why can tennis have up to 4 from an NOC and judo only 1 per weight category for a NOC?
     
  10. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Most of you will remember WX's injury sustained in the Olympics. And everyone knows Wang Lin had several knee surgeries.

    I personally witnessed Chen XJ's accident in a match against Julianne in HK Open 2012. She was immediately sent to hospital for surgery. I still remember this very vividly. She is just a child.

    chen-xiaojia-3080-hko2012.jpg
     
    #170 pcll99, Mar 1, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  11. mindreader

    mindreader Regular Member

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    See below.

    That's actually hilarious. How many 4th single in ANY country ISN'T erratic. 1st singles in MOST countries are erratic. 1st singles in MOST countries havent' won jack. Except 1st singles in other countries get to play and Wang Zhengming doesn't.

    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/page.aspx?id=14955

    Here's the ranking list. Other than a select few at the top, WHICH players isn't erratic? Which ones have actually won anything? Believe it or not, there's a reason why Wang is ranked 9th in the world instead of Kashyap Parupalli.

    And about Chen Long, he's superior in EVERY way to Wang Zhengming at present. Li Yongbo made the right decision, but that just means unless Wang Zhengming can overtake Chen Long, he'll never get to play. Once again, thanks for making my point for me.

    And if Wang never gets to play, he'll NEVER develop and become less erratic.

    Now go ahead and tell me how consistent (or should I say consistently bad) Parupalli is.
     
  12. mindreader

    mindreader Regular Member

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    Take away the nationality, so say if Wang Zhengming emigrated from China to Singapore, does he qualify or not? Yes he would. As first single no less. And in case your forgot, it wasn't Wang or Du Pengyu who they tried to get in the Olympics. It was Chen Jin. His points are legitimate. And if you assert otherwise, it isn't up to me to provide a persuasive argument. The burden of proof is on you to back up that assertion.
     
  13. mindreader

    mindreader Regular Member

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    Du Pengyu and Wang Zhengming ALREADY ARE in the top 16. Xue Song, Chen Yongkun and Tian Houwei are now screwed. They could have made a push had Lin Dan decided to retire, now their chances are slim. By the time Rio comes around, they'll be 22, 26 and 24 respectively. In other words, Rio was their make or break year. Now, Rio is their break year. These people are getting shafted even more than Wang Zhengming.

    And once again, let's not forget why Wang Zhengming is going to the All England. Oh that's right, Lin Dan doesn't qualify due to his hiatus. Now that things are returning to normal, Wang Zhengming goes right back to the back of the line.
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Yes. A player may change nationality and be able to qualify. That's what the IOC allows and I am quite aware of that :). If you really want all the world's best players at the Olympics, that's ok. But why does IOC impose these limits (albeit inconsistent limits across different sports) via ruling bodies? What is the point of continental representation? Why bother giving wild cards to host nations? Why don't you ask for the 4th/5th/6th etc ranked person to be included if they are in the top 32 of the world.
     
  15. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Yes. A player may change nationality and be able to qualify. That's what the IOC allows and I am quite aware of that :). If you really want all the world's best players at the Olympics, that's ok. But why does IOC impose these limits (albeit inconsistent limits across different sports) via ruling bodies? What is the point of continental representation? Why bother giving wild cards to host nations? Why don't you ask for the 4th/5th/6th etc ranked person to be included if they are in the top 32 of the world.
     
  16. scorpion1

    scorpion1 Regular Member

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    This one answer is enough to prove what you really intended to.. You only started with wang zhenming's non-inclusion in majors and something like that blah blah blah.. If anybody pointed it out, immediately you targeted their country players . Like here, you targeted Kashyap just because my profile has got the country name "india" ??.. Lol..

    And if Wang never gets to play, he'll NEVER develop and become less erratic. - what you are talking about.. Are you in dreams..??? He is playing all the tournaments so far. Then what else you are expecting?? Your query itself does not have any meaning..? Then how come you expect answers..

    Now go ahead and tell me how consistent (or should I say consistently bad) Parupalli is. - Yes .. He is inconsistent.. But what to do.. He is the highest ranked player in india.. If we did not select him, that will go for controversies even if he is not consistent.. What to do..?
     
  17. mindreader

    mindreader Regular Member

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    Great. So send Wang Zhengming to Singapore. You know what the problem is? Singapore's badminton would still suck as much as it did before. Just like Qatar's distance running is still garbage. Or worse, how Freddie Adu turned out a complete bust after becoming American. There are just somethings in which there are no short cuts to.
     
  18. mindreader

    mindreader Regular Member

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    Are you out of your mind? The whole point for the existence of this thread is BECAUSE the ridiculous rule in which the BWF TARGETED a certain country. In case that wasn't clear enough for you, BWF doesn't target China = this thread doesn't exist. The whole point of this thread is targeting countries. So your rant basically involves "why are you targeting poor India?" Is that a joke of some sort? Don't want to talk about targeting certain countries? Don't target certain countries.

    And no, Wang DOESN'T get to play. He didn't get to play the UC, not the TC, not the Asian Games. He only got to play the Worlds because somebody else decided to take a year off. And he won't get to play the Olympics either.

    So let's summarize. Wang Zhengming WON'T be playing in the most rank heavy tournaments (exactly like I said); he won't be building experience at those important tournaments, which would help facilitate his selection (exactly like I said); and the only way he gets to play is if somebody else decided not to be there (exactly like I said). Your argument is what exactly?

    Should I draw you a picture?

    And for Parupalli, no disrespect or anything. Wang is the better player. He is more consistent. He did win more. He is higher ranked. The controversy for not selecting him is far higher than not selecting Parupalli, especially since the rules are in place which curtails Wang's potential entry.
     
  19. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    getting hot in here.

    did someone turn off the Air Con? :D
     
  20. yamsyams

    yamsyams Regular Member

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    The 4th/5th/6th etc ranked players should absolutely be included. The entire policy to limit the number from the top of the ranking list rather than from the bottom is simply wrong. Say you have a qualified list of the top 32 players and you need a continental/host wildcard, why not remove the last player whose country is already represented and give that place to the wildcard? That is surely a fairer way than taking away the chance from a WR3/4/5 etc, no?

    And if you say well it's the Olympics, fine I'll give you that the BWF may have to adhere to certain guidelines of the IOC and their hands are tied, but why have similar quotas in the World Championships? Isn't the definition of WC the competition of the best players in the world?

    All these policies only point to one thing: these rules are made to target and limit the dominant country, China in this case.

    My previous post, arguing that it is an ineffective and ultimately unlikely move to "promote badminton around the world": http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...-from-3-to-2?p=2203723&viewfull=1#post2203723
     

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