Marin has two relative weaknesses. One is her technique, which is good of course but it is not the best (compared to RI, LXR, etc.). The other is her confidence. When she is confident she is lethal, but we have seen that when things don't work we loose her means. In that sense, she reminds me more LCW then LD.
it's partly due to timing in regards to physical health. during 2015 ssf marin was not 100%. she got a shoulder injury after 2015 hk ssp. after 2016 all england okuhara hasn't been 100%. no serious injury, but a couple of nagging physical quirks. she w/d from the next ss, india. okuhara still made olympic semi's, which is difficult even if you're 100%, but i don't see her recovery as complete yet. otoh, marin is peaking from her recovery. when both are 100% i give marin the edge. she is slightly quicker, and noticeably stronger than okuhara.
LD doesn't need a third OG gold to be viewed as "the GOAT", 2 OG Golds, 2 AG Golds, 5 WCs are plenty enough. I don't agree with highmountain, but it was pretty disingenuous of you to claim that LCW is a "better man" based on the results of one match, and then opportunistically throw in LD's "bad behavior". So what if now I throw in the fact now that history has recorded LCW to have doped, without providing any context? That certainly makes him sound worse than LD, doesn't it?
All is subjective ultimately. But all can (must) at least agree that Carolina Marin is already "one of the" greatest WS players of all time. Counting team events is hilarious. I'll leave it with the fact that she's from Spain! Enough said.
Typically when players are compared most important titles are counted. Those important titles are world championships and olympics. Isn't that generally agreed? Lee Chong Wei has more superseries titles than anyone else but nobody thinks he is the best player ever. And in general when a sports becomes part of olympics level of competition goes up, so I would say level of competition is higher than in the 80's when Li Lingwei was dominating. The fact is no WS player has more world championships than Carolina Marin. Another fact is that only one WS player has more olympic gold medals than Marin. These two facts clearly state that Marin is already of the greatest WS player ever.
I think Marin's weakness is inconsistency, she makes lots of unforced errors. In olympic final she lost the first game after 4 unforced errors and a missed netkill. Also defence could be further improved. But have to give her credit for adopting those sliced dropshots during last few years so well. So I see she can still improve a lot, if she can reach Li Xuerui consistency that would be something.
Well there are some here who argue that since LCW has the most number of SS(P) titles, and since those titles are "officially defined" as majors, then he should be the GOAT. Not that I agree, but these people do exist. I refer you to this thread: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...er-of-australia-ss-is-not-in-olympics.164806/
Even if LCW wins his first and only OG today, he's forever second-best to Lin Dan, The GOAT. As to whether LCW would compare favourably with the other greats, that's all arguable but I'd still rate Zhao Jianhua better than him, and perhaps Yang Yang as well.
That is your opinion. The problem is there is no universally agreed formula how to value and compare certain achievements.
Zhang Nan has won two Olympic golds and one bronze. He has also won gold in World Championships, Thomas Cup, Sudirman Cup, Asian Games and All England. And he is only 26. He still has two bites at the cherry in Tokyo. No one is even close to Zhang Nan's achievement (maybe except Park JB). (The only thing missing in Zhang Nan's CV is a gold medal in the National Games of China, which he can win next year.)
You mean LD gave the match away after toiling for more than an hour and fighting off 3 match points? Has the air in high mountain become so dense it clouds your perception? Do you know what it means when LD lost to LCW? 1) Regardless of whether LCW wins the gold today, no fan can ever say LD is unbeatable in OG. Today s outcome proves LCW can beat LD in OG as well. 2) Do you know how much LD has to slog ( in the gym and outside) to just get back to OG competitive mode? You think he enjoys that extended tedious, painful grind so that he can play OG to decide that he can win it if he really wants it? So he went through months of pain and decided at the deuce score of 20-20, he didn't want to win? 3) Do you know what it means if LD can win OG 3x? His endorsement deals will shoot beyond high mountain and stay there for quite awhile without him having to work in the gym again ( unless he wants to ) 4) Do you know what it means when LD fails to win OG a third time? His endorsement value will depreciate, how fast and how low, only the sponsors will know. Maybe the risks have not been considered. ( If LD had not tried for the third OG, his invincibility image would have been perpetuated and his endorsement value guaranteed for some time) So please come down to the valley to think better.
You think too highly of yourself and your opinions. GOAT concept is perpetrated by those who requires reassurance that their idols are the best, in other words, non achievers.
World Championships I would agree. But honestly Olympics is in term on Skills on a much lower level than every Superseries tournament. At the Olympics you have of course the very best players together, but players who also belong to the very best, are not attending. This is very sad. And only because Olympics is a showcase of egoism in nationality does not make it to the "most important" titles. From a rational point of view it is not. Just because media hypes the Olympics because of nationality reason doesn't make it important (from a rational view point)
as I said it before, to become GOAT, major titles alone is not valid you must consider : major titles total titles H2H World #1 World records Superseries is just the same with Open / Grand Prix event from 19xx to 2006. if you don't agree, so Super Dan victory in Korea Open 2002 and other Open titles until 2006 is count or not count ? and you can count LCW total titles, exclude Commonwealth Games, and SEA Games where LD can't compete. exclude also Satellite tournament bcoz this is only for mediocre players count it and then compare it to LD. it is pretty the same, or LD ahead with 1 title no logic at all. there are Olympics in Susi's era, even teice, but Susi can't win even 1 title in LLW's era, so what is your answer ? even when LLW retire, Han Aiping already 27 y.o., and she is the world #1 really can't compare LLW and HAP with Susi bcoz WC in LLW and HAP era, incl Susi / Ye / GZC era only held once in 2 years if until now the regulation is the same, then Marin only win it once. period.
so what is your GOAT concept and who is the MS GOAT according to you ? if you say MS GOAT is not LD / Zhao JH / Tang XH, then tell me your GOAT so we can analyze if your fav player is fit for the GOAT status. so simple.
Just as I expected from you, biding your time for Lin Dan to lose and then vent your spleen showing how petty, narrow-minded, sanctimonious, self-righteous you are, magnifying the 'bad' and overlooking the good of others. First off, Lin Dan outclassed LCW in G1. In G2, he was inexplicably unrecognisable in giving it away to LCW. In the decider,he played a more normal game but not a la Super Dan and the match ended a close affair in deuce which could have gone either way; it was really too close to call and LCW knew how lucky he was this time when Lin Dan was nowhere near his best. Immediately after, Lin Dan showed what a true sportsman and gentleman he is in exchanging shirts with LCW, hugging and congratulating his perpetual rival. OTOH, whenever LCW lost to Lin Dan at the majors, he would be devastated, looking lost and confused, closed himself up,a broken man, forgot and didn't have the courtesy to shake his opponent's hand. LCW is the better man simply for silently withstanding all those criticisms leveled at him ? Is he the only one who can do that? What do you expect LCW to do if you were in his shoes? Didn't LCW protest Lin Dan's wild card entry in the 2013 WC? Didn't LCW grumble like a sour grape at Lin Dan for being selective at playing the superseries? While Lin Dan is always hailing LCW as his greatest rival and most worthy opponent, the only grudging praise from LCW of his archrival is "there is only one Lin Dan"-contrast this with what Peter Gade said and did with his own Farewell Exhibition Match where he invited only Lin Dan and even hosted him at his private residence and served him his favourtie wine collection. Even Lee Hyun Il's acknowledgement of Lin Dan is more unreserved than LCW's , calling Lin Dan the perfect shuttler. And,of course, as yamsyams pointed out, LCW's doping incident is conveniently sidestepped as if it never happened because you believed him innocent. If it were Lin Dan instead what would you have done, cast aspersions on him, swear that he's guilty as hell no matter what the BWF Hearing Panel said, and regard the whole case a conspiracy ? Your obsession with Lin Dan is incurable, all your posts against Lin Dan are telling, they speak more of yourself than him, revealing deep inside what you really are. I don't wish to be so personal with you, it's just that the uncle Loh that I thought I knew is no more. To err is human, to forgive divine. Take Lin Dan for what he is, warts and all. He is not only The GOAT in badminton, as a person he is big-hearted, magnanimous, filial and dutiful, devoted and doting, a maverick, strong and principled; as a player, he is supremely confident, mentally tough, fearsome, truly awesome, his skills and techniques second to none, peerless, incomparable, unparalleled. We shall not see his like again for a long, long time.
