2 Knots and 4 Knots

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by ants, Oct 30, 2003.

?

how many knots is your rackets strung at?

  1. 2 knots

    11 vote(s)
    31.4%
  2. 4 knots.

    25 vote(s)
    71.4%
  3. fancy knots (ie. more than 4 knots)

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    This is unlikely as it would mean 3 strings sharing one grommet-the main, cross and the original anchor string. A plausible explanation is that one of the knots has disappeared into the grommet hole, due to wrong knotting or incorrect tensioning of the knot, and/or using a grommet hole that is larger than usual.
     
  2. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Your assumption(s) are also quite possible. I did see the 3 knots cases several times, and they belong to my assumption. Actually, I tried it once myself, as I was using the 23 cross pattern instead of 22 cross on my SOTX 8080+. Of course, 3 strings share one gromment is a hard task, but definitely doable. :)
     
  3. goldmedal

    goldmedal Regular Member

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    well its quite a cheap raquet- a yonex iso 23 vf, so mabye that explains it
     
  4. Kai91

    Kai91 Regular Member

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    2 knots at 22lbs...
     
  5. Benasp

    Benasp Regular Member

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    2 knot 22 lbs i don't know how to string so it take what the strigner give me
     
  6. NB1700

    NB1700 Regular Member

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    Do the positions of the knots matter? I have two racquets strung by the same shop in different period. Both are 4 knots but the positions of two knots on each racquet are different. :confused:
     
  7. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    For Yonex non-AT800 racquets, the mains tie-off knots are both on bottom grommet 8, one left and the other right, and the cross starting knot on grommet 6 at the top and the tie-off is at bottom grommet 7. However, Yonex is experimenting with cross tie-off at bottom grommet 6. :D
     
  8. NB1700

    NB1700 Regular Member

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    According to what you said, do the knots position on my weird sound weird?:confused:
     

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  9. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    I thought the current instructions were already for the tie-off at the bottom of the crosses to be at 6.

    That's what it says on the stringing instructions (non AT800) on www.yonex.co.uk
     
  10. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    There is some confusion on this. The Japanese catalog says the cross end tie-off is at grommet 7 whilst the catalog for SP areas says it is at grommet 6. To complicate matters more, Yonex Japan has responded with two different answers, depending on the questions asked of them. For example, when requesting for their stringing pattern, Yonex Japan says cross end tie-off is at grommet 7 for non-AT800 racquets. FYI, Yonex China uses grommet 7. But when I queried them on why their new catalog for SP areas is indicating grommet 6 instead of their earlier recommendation of using grommet 7, they couldn't respond. Subsequent follow-up with Yonex Japan was met with apologies and a response saying they would get their R&D people to answer my rather technical question. As expected their R&D people emailed me explaining that using grommet 6 for the end cross tie-off was adopted because of less tension loss. Their explanation was that, as the last cross string comes out from grommet 9 at the bottom, inserting this into grommet 6 will see two opposing forces, one the string coming out of grommet 9 has a tendency to snap back and the main string at grommet 6 has a "pull" upwards. I did not accept their explanation, telling them the "pull" tendency of the main string at grommet 6 is downwards, not upwards as they claimed, and will make the tension loss even worse. As you know, the main string at grommet 6 is pulled by the gripper at the head end when tensioning. Therefore, after tensioning the main string at grommet 6 would have the tendency to snap back, i.e. downwards from the head to the throat end. Since then their R&D people have not bothered to come back to me. I wonder why? Meantime, I finish my cross tie-off at grommet 7, as I believe it is here that the "two opposing forces" cancel each other out to minimize tension loss. :D
     
  11. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    No it is not weird, just different. Anyway, I see you are using the two bottom grommet 7 to tie-off your main strings and the top grommet 6 as the starting knot for the cross. But why the tie-off knot at grommet 11 from the bottom left?
     
  12. NB1700

    NB1700 Regular Member

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    I don't know cos I am not a stringer:eek:
    The stringing work was done by a badminton shop.
    So "the tie-off knot at grommet 11 from the bottom left" is unusual, unacceptable or questionable or whatever.........:confused: I really know very little about stringing
     
  13. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    If you examine the grommets, you will notice that most modern racquets have larger grommets at certain locations and smaller grommets at other locations. Larger grommets are specifically for 2 strings to pass through, one main string and one cross string.
    Looking at the top of the frame, called the head, you will notice that grommets 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, on both sides can take in 2 strings. Looking at the throat end of the frame, you will notice that grommets 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 (but not grommet 11) can take in 2 strings, one main, one cross. All the other grommets are smaller and are intended to allow only one string to pass through.
    Using the above grommet pattern, you can deduce why the mains tie-off is at the bottom grommet 8 on both sides, the cross starting knot is at grommet 6 on one side of the head, and the cross end tie-off is at one of the bottom grommet 7. You will notice that newer racquets do not have large grommet at the bottom grommet 6.
    How your racquet's cross string finishes with a tie-off at the bottom grommet 11 is strange, as the bottom grommets 11, unlike the top grommets 11, are designed for only one string to pass through. It is fundamentally better to have tie-off knots at the thicker part of the frame, i.e. near the throat end. The only exception is the starting cross knot at the top grommet 6, which is conceptually not desirable but cannot be avoided, although its weakness here is minimized by stringing the first cross string at the next nearest grommet, that is grommet 7 at the top.
    I hope you are still with me. Go through the above with your racquet and you will eventually understand. :D
     
  14. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Re grommet sizes, Yonex is still drilling their grommet holes mainly using only one size. The AT800 has a mixture of large and small grommets. Most other manufacturers have a pattern of large and small grommets similar to what I described earlier.
     
  15. NB1700

    NB1700 Regular Member

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    taneepak, thank you for a detailed explanation. I somehow get what you said.:)

    I examined my racquet in question, which is a Cab20MS, and noticed that grommet 11 is just about the same size as grommets 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12.

    However, my another racquet (a Dunlop) is like what you metioned (i.e. grommet 11 at the throat end of the frame is smaller in size than its counterpart grommets 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12). This racquet has bottom grommets 7 and 8 tied off on one side.
     
  16. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    How very strange that most other racquets other than Yonex racquets now have a grommet system that fits almost exactly Yonex's stringing pattern for non-AT800 racquets! But Yonex's grommet system doesn't exactly synchronize with their own stringing pattern! Maybe Yonex's R&D people responsible for Yonex stringing pattern did not get in touch with their racquet grommet drillers at their factory. :D
     
  17. lightsmash

    lightsmash Regular Member

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    why is mine 3 knots?:confused:
     
  18. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    For a start, you can try to trace which string and from which location the string originates from which eventually ended up as a tie-off knot in all these 3 knots. If we can trace these 3 knots, it would be easier to trace either the disappearing 4th knot or the redundant 3rd knot. There is no such thing as a functional 3 knot stringing job. :D
     
  19. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Possibly 2 of the knots were sharing the same gromment. When I 1st strung my SOTX 8080+, I mis-calculate the crosses, therefore, I found out I ran out of the large gromment to tie the last knot. Therefore, hassel through, and put 2 knots together (with an ugly ball shape :p ). Pretty lucky that the gromment can hold 2 knots with 3 pieces of string. :D
     
  20. cards_pro

    cards_pro Regular Member

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    I have a few questions for 4 knots stringing.

    1) Should I free stringing the main first and then cut the string. Or I need to cut the string into 2 pieces first then free string the main and cross?
    2) If I need to cut the string into 2 pieces first, how long should be for the main and cross? (are they the same length for all kind of racques?)
    3) Is it true that all grommets are the same size?
    4) How /where to get a replacement gromment?
    5) How often should we restring our racques ? Or may be I should ask how many of hours could a string last?
    thank you!
    :)
     

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