HI I would like you to comment on what I call the banana body movement. I see players using this funny movement, doing the long forehand serve and clear/smashes... Having the side to net, the waist is first moved toward the net while the head and shoulders and to some extent feet are pointed towards the backcourt, thereby the body is shape like a bow, hence looking like a banana. Then throughout the strike they move the waist backward and head/feet forward, that is mirroring the banana shape. As far as I have understood this is a very bad idea. Body rotation in badminton, is for right-handed normally an "around" counter-clockwise movement from back/right/front/(left) where the shoulders are in the same "horizontal level" trough-out the rotation. That is, there should be no up and down movement in shoulders and no banana movement. Do you agree, arguments please?
i having a bit of trouble understanding this banana move. Do you have a picture or illustration to show us? Are you talking about players bending their body to the side if the shuttlecock is aimed at their body?
phandrew: I don't have a picture right now... sorry. But no that is not what I meant. 1) Imagined that you are standing in the middle of the court with the side to the net, that is the net at your left and the backcourt is then of cause at your right. You are now standing completely straight, arms down the side and 90 degree angel with the floor, a straight line could go through your head and would meet the roof - okay... 2) Then you strecht up your arms over your head and bow so that yours arms and head will be pointing towards the backcourt (NO rotating in this example), and the imagined line the from 1) that would meet the roof, would meet or poiting toward the wall at the side of the building, at the backcourt. Your waist would then point toward the net. 3) Then do the opposite movement from there, that is moving your arms/head toward the net, and the waist would be moved towards the backcourt. Then you have a kind of banana movement. Hope that helps a little.
Well, I gues the movement is kind of the same as what you mentioned, just here with the side of body towards the net and e.g. used in a clear, often to get behind the shuttle.
I found a picture in another thread: http://i32.tinypic.com/2ce5e8x.jpg (Whole thread: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=818370&highlight=clear+rotation#post818370 ) Although she is left-handed and not so much with the side toward the net, you can clearly see the banana shape. You can find pictures of professionals with a banana shape to. Actually I thing almost everybody to some extent make use of it, especially when you are kind of busy...
This is common because it is most likely because people can't reach the end of the court in time to clear so you are more likely to bend over to the side to do a drop shot.
Thanks, I agree that it is very common, but it does not make it more correct...?! As I mentioned, I also see people do that kind of that movement, just a little, for a long forehand serve. When I look at videos of professional players hitting from the backcourt, I can acknowledge that very often their shoulder, the one where the racket is in the other end, is first a little lower or same level (horizontal) as the other shoulder, but when striking the arm and the shoulder is then situated higher than the other shoulder, lets call it a mini-banana movement in that are . What I am interested is, whether it is technically correct to gain power from a more or less banana-like-movement, or is the body-rotation-movement the only right thing concerning body-movement. The different between the to movements is basically the "direction" of the body-movement, as for the rotation of the body, of course you move "around" yourself sideways, but for any kind of banana-movement the move of the body is more about up and downwards... Does it make sense for you?
This movement is due to lack of anticipation, standing too upright while rallying and improper footwork. Most recreational players do this because it's natural for them to back up straight for the clears/lifts. Professionals and players with proper training would always try to take the shuttle in front of their bodies so it's not often that you see them in this form. I think I get what you're meaning... the only time professionals do this is when they are about to jump smash. I was told that if you jump high enough, your body will automatically bend like a bow and propel forward to hit the shuttle. Just look at how track and field jumpers jump. They would run and propel forward with their bodies bend back and land with their feet infront into the sand pit.
Thanks, I think your understood my point Cappy75, but actually there is no reason for bending backwards to reach the shuttle, it will only make it worse, as you can always adjust by the angle between racket and forearm, hence when reaching the shuttle late it will be a round the head stroke, with angle down to 90 degree. I have made a little fast drawing to illustrate my point concerning the banana-movement, don't focus on details okay, like position of racket and so, it is just fast draw. I could not upload a powerpoint file, so I saved it as two .jpeg files.
bending your body backwards a bit is quite normal particularly in singles. but snapping into a foward bending position isn't normal. and yeah its very normal in jump smashes to arch your whole body backwards with legs flexing and springing out to release your core/trunk muscle power
Oh no, Mikael... I totally agree with you. It's not the right movement, but all too common due to the reasons I mentioned before. I pulled my back once doing too many of those, so I know very well. Training footwork helps minimize arching the back as proper footwork enables one to reach the shuttle in front of the body more often. As for pros arching of their backs when jump smashing, it's natural and just a slight arch... they still take the shuttle in front of their body.
The movement itself is not purposefully done. This can't be a correct move because it is not efficient in providing power into the shot. However, I've seen this all the time in the professional as well as the amateur level. Sometimes you just can't get back fast enough. A perfect footwork should never require you do do these back breaking maneuvers.
back breaking bending maybe not good, but arching for power is the only way to add power via the core muscles, the rotation you're talking about is just arching at an angle. for sure if u have weak core or back muscles this could lead to serious injury, but its one of those things where ur body should automatically prevent you doing cos it'll hurt
The reason why people would bend backwards to do a stroke is because they are too late at contacting the bird; it is now behind them. Bending backwards allows them to add power through the core, as moggy said. If you have a very strong forearm and can generate power even when the bird is behind you without much use of your core, you don't realy need to do thise motion much.
So can we all agree, that although everybody, more or less seems to make that banana-movement, it is a bad thing to practice whether it is clear or smash. Even for jump smash I cannot see the need, though it feels "natural", you stress your muscles before impact and makes it more difficult to relax and balance is also blurred!
if u've watched any videoes or read about jump smashes u'll realise a lot of the power comes from the core and trunks. if you can't bend then u'll lose power from a jump smash. if you can't see the need its most likely because you've never executed a jump smash including your core muscles. hopefully one day you'll learn and see the difference
Well, if you hit the bird in front of you, then there's no need to bend back. But there will always be times when you're not fast enough...
bending back provides some of the momentum in not only getting in the air, but also hitting the birdie and rotating. Dont confuse bad form with necessary movement.
Moggy: You are right, I am not at a level for jump smash yet, but I hope soon to be able to learn more about the technique. I just thought the arguments would be the same for clear and normal smash as jump smash, I mean either it makes sense to talk about banana-power or it does not, but maybe it is not that simple... Blundey: Concerning your statement, how do you know that for sure?
