To me, I believe ppl has the nature feeling of "sour grape" when others can be more successful. There's no shame to admit it. As everyone can have "red eyes" when ppl around you have a better stance. However, the thing I can't take is, ppl who are jealous, trying to put on a "fair and honest" mask, when they whinning. Anyway, back to the original topic. No need to create another endless debate to see who's better or worse, when applying whatever strategies. The goal for the coach and players are simple - win at any cost.
Whether an injury is faked, we don't have any proof. Therefore, by law, it's still a legal move. Every pro has some degree of injuries. Therefore, if someone raise his/her hand can say, "i feel sick", then s/he has every rights to take a break. If a coach has the rights to say who to be field, then the player has his/her own rights about whether s/he feels good enough to play through sickness/injuries or purely laziness. We as fans using our common sense to judge the matter. For CHN, we don't believe a player can be that easily injuried especially facing a teammate. For KOR, we don't really believe the screwing lineup actually trying to steal a W due to surprise. However, by the current law, they are all perfectly legal. For us, if we feel dizzy when we wake up, we can calling in sick. Usually, your boss won't force you to provide a doctor's note if you only take 1 day or a few hours off. Of course, ppl can say that you are lazy, making excuse to stay at home for the day, but as long as they don't have proof, they can't accuse you "fake sickness" by law. Therefore, you won't be fired, because you take a day off, regardless whether the sickness is serious enough to really prevent you from work. Whether it's using a weaker line up to abuse the system, or take a w/o to help teammates, it did NOT break any written law, from the way the teams present it. Even though as our fans, we don't have to like it, we need to face the reality. Also, even though the approach from both teams are very different, the result is the same - take advantage of the system, and max. it's own chance of success, whether it's a team, a coach, a particular player, etc. To me, it's the same result as well - a lackness competitive match for that particular round. Hey, CHN players only make 1 game to be boring. KOR made 10 (yeah, they did fought and did even won some, but overall, all 10 are less competitive than it suppose to be)...
If you are doing something wrong, whether your intention is for yourself or others, you are doing someting wrong. There's no better degree or not. Put this way, if you rob a bank, you are a robber. Whether you use the money for your own pleasure, or you use the money to help your friend, you are cause the same degree of damage to the bank and the society image. If we are really arguing the difference, then I will praise the CHN players giving up their own chance for others, while the KOR is doing all the damage to the sports for themsevles. Ok, ppl don't shoot me.
The chinese W/O and Korea line ups are basically the same idea. Chosing a better alternative to finish in better position. Whether it is right or wrong that's not for us to judge. The whole moral vs rule issues been discussed so many times.
As I said, different people will have different opinion about how similar the two situations are, due to different weights put on various aspects. For example, you put no weight on the difference I mentioned (intention) while I put substantial weight on it. So let's stop here. Btw, I would like to see players be more selfish, with grabbing the highest glory their only goal.
I would say..Blame it on the TCAS system... ...in the airline industry, there's a safety system used by airlines/control tower to warn airplanes of impending mid-air collisions; it's called the TCAS "Traffic Collision Avoidance System". But after seeing all the actions on the 2nd day of competition, in this current BWF TC & UC, i think i have to give a new definition of TCAS, , called the "Thomas Cup Avoidance System".. I think what the KOR team manager and other coaches as well as some of the BCers had mentioned are correct. This current TC & UC system is really a joke & dubious and BWF needs to take a look at this system. I looked around the other mainstream sports and i ONLY see this system being used in BWF (badminton); in a way, i'd say BWF is to blame for implementing this system. Who in the world would allow losing teams to still compete in a playoff and have a chance to win it all?? Not in the NBA, MLB or maybe even in soccer??...This is like going in reverse, having teams determine the seedings for the elimination round DURING their group play... Anyway...i can't imagine if M'sia would've done the same approach as what team Korea did. Or if other teams did the same, all throwing their ties away in hope to avoid playing China... ..you feel dizzy, i'm totally combobulated....Anyway, hope and pray the KOR squad at least reaches the Final. If not, so much for the "more secure path lah" theory..
Jealous is a human instinct, so guess what, chill out and play more badminton. blame who ever you want but keep it off this board.
BWF did not only let KOR to do it, every other team can do it. So BWF is fair to all. If MAS, CHN or INA dare not to do it like what KOR did, they just cAnt simply shoot on KOR. I am waiting on KOR fanz to defend their team on this topic.
Talked to Ha Tae Kwon during German Open I asked Ha Tae Kwon why this funny lineup in the preliminary round in Vietnam was chosen. The answer was: Because of the flight schedule they were forced to depart five hours after the beginning of the match against MAS. The only alternative not to give up was to play in this order while hoping the match would not last long. Due to the three weeks Europe tournament tour they had to fly back to Seoul and to Germany on the same day. MAS didn't take part in German Open adn thus under no time pressure. The same happened to the Japanese Squad whose chief Park Joobong I also asked. Fortunately, they didn't have to play in the finals round. Unfortunate for Korean players, they did well with the scratched pairs, so there was no time for PSH and others to take shower. They rushed to the airport in order to get the flight. They had the option to give up, but that was not eligible.
I agree. This is called strategy. When Korea mixed their lineup around, I see absolutely no wrong with it. No rules were broken. As for those paying fans, to put it directly when they purchased their tickets, there were no "Teams being required to field their best lineup" printed on it type of thingy. To me, the Koreans were smart to make full use of their chances.
Exhibit A Table Country A 1st team (P1, W1 - beat Country B 5-0) Country B team (P2, W1 - beat Country A2 4-1, L1 - lost to Country A1 0-5) Country A 2nd team (P1, L1 - lost to Country B 1-4) Last match of the group involves both teams of Country A. Country A wants to take both the top spots. Easy, just conspire to let the 2nd team beat the 1st team 4-1. Exhibit B Table Country A team (P1, W1 - beat Country B 5-0) Country B team (P2, W1 - beat Country C 4-1, L1 - lost to Country A 0-5) Country C team (P1, L1 - lost to Country B 1-4) Last match of the group involves Country A and Country C. For stategic reasons, Country A wants to finish second due to circumstances in other groups. So, it conspires to lose to Country C 5-0. Similarities 1. Sneaky. Both deny Country B their rightful second place finish. 2. Both are fixing matches, making it uninteresting for spectators. 3. Both are perfectly legal (but only because foul play in these circumstances can never be proven) Differences 1a. Exhibit B - Country A is playing for itself. It is not purposely trying to deny Country B. If the last match came down to A v B, then A would let B win to take the second spot. 1b. Exhibit A - Country A first team in Exhibit A is playing for Country A second team. It is purposely denying Country B. If the last match is between A1 and B, A1 would strive to win. Conclusions 1. Even if both stategies are legal, most people know (though they can't prove it) that there is something morally wrong in each of the stategies. (This is also true for global issues like trade imbalances forced upon the poor.) 2. One strategy can be more wrong than another. They cannot be lumped into one basket. This is the real world, it is in different shades of grey, not just black or white. Korean issue 1. Their line-judging in Korea Open is much worse than what they did in Jakarta. 2. By finishing third, they did not deny MAS or ENG anything. MAS and ENG are not complaining. This is already better than the Exhibit B example (though I am not implying that KOR will not resort to the same thing given Exhibit B circumstances). 3. So, all they did was to deny spectators some good matches, especially v MAS.
I think no point to blame or defend what KOR (or may be other team) did... the one to blame is BWF! I still think this is stupid system for such a big tournament! As what jurong_twister said, this badminton will go no where!
Against china, I still think that we have a change to make it. If LCW could deliver a point for, then our chance to win will be 55:45 .. ..
The Korean Strategy Now 'makan Tuan'.... hahahaaaa....im the first guy who laugh.....korean are behind 2-0 against denmark.........now they regret what they done wrong....hahahaha
