Footwork (yet again)

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by yotarou, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. yotarou

    yotarou Regular Member

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    Hi everyone. Just a disclaimer so no one gets mad at me--I've already done a search for "footwork" and read through the majority of the threads relating to it, but I still have some questions.

    1. What is the difference between the "Danish" way and the "regular" way to footwork? I watched this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSmflcwGfhI, and the person performs different varieties of the same shot, so I'm a bit confused as to which to use. (Also: is the video fairly accurate and reliable to reference when doing shadow drills?)
    2. One of the coaches a few years ago taught us footwork that used a lot of hopping. Like... hop, hop, step? So that the momentum from the hops will propel you forward. Or something similar. Is this a better way to approach footwork drills? Because I noticed in the above video, the person definitely doesn't do that. And are there any videos out there that have that particular method?
    3. Is it OK to practice footwork on grass? I read the thread from a year ago or so when someone also asked something like that, and basically was shot down by everyone around him. I really do not have any access to sand or gym court--would a tennis court be OK? Sorry if this is a noob question, but I really need somewhere to practice footwork.

    Thanks everyone so much in advance! This site has really helped make me excited for badminton and for improving, too. Please, if you can, answer all the questions, since I would really like to know answers to all of them.
     
  2. KazeCloud

    KazeCloud Regular Member

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    Well. I don't think you can categorize footwork by race. Lol. Probably more by how a certain person was taught or just want to do it.

    Of course footwork practice should move towards game like drills. However, if your just beginning to learn the steps, go slow to get the basics down, then you can work on speed.

    I think the person in the video does hop. I don't think theres any problem doing it in grass.
     
  3. yotarou

    yotarou Regular Member

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    Thanks, KazeCloud!

    Sorry, I didn't really want to categorize by race, thus the quotation marks.

    I noticed that you're from Stockton--which is kind of a coincidence, since my coach just gave me a hand-out of a store in Stockton which sells higher-end racquets. I'm from Davis! Like a 2-hour drive away, I think? Sorry, random.
     
  4. t3tsubo

    t3tsubo Regular Member

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    personally,a footdrag lunge works 10x better for me than any other method since it lets me return to center/ready-to-netkill position so smoothly.
    hops make it so that youll never be caught flat footed, basically because it forces you to react after the shot is made, instead of you trying to react before they actually hit the bird just based on their body movements. This is why experience players do such funny fake shots when player newbier ones yet never against other pros - cuz it works.
    personally i wouldnt practice on grass if i could help it, but if u badly need footwork practice then it wouldnt hurt you game, though it might mess up your shoes.
     
  5. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I don't think that video is very good. It's not very clear at all and doesn't explain the technique. I notice at the end of some of the lunges, the left leg is not drawn up slightly to get back the balance.

    It also shows too many variations so you won't know which is the basic footwork.

    As you mention, those players do not do the hop before the movement. I would say this is quite important when moving from a static position. When you do the hop, try to get both feet landing on the ground at the same time. It's very difficult to change direction of movement with one foot on the ground and one foot still in the air (even if it's only a split second difference).
     
  6. KazeCloud

    KazeCloud Regular Member

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    THERES A STORE IN STOCKTON THAT SELLS HIGH END RACKETS!?!?!? WHERE!?!?!?

    O_O! Your welcome btw. Please tell me where you buy it. I never knew there was...
     
  7. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Try to observe the existing world class players and stick to one you are familiar with. Easy. There's just too many variations.
     
  8. yotarou

    yotarou Regular Member

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    Errrr...what would that look like?

    Hm... so do you think it's a good (enough) video to base shadow drills off of? Or is there a particular video that is more clear that you would suggest that encompasses the basics? It's kind of sad because I've looked through so many, yet each one seems to be different, or slightly different, than the next, so I don't know which to follow.

    Thanks for the advice. :)

    Lol, um, I dunno I might've read it incorrectly since I just scanned through, but I will definitely ask my coach for the paper again 'cuz I might have to go there too. But I'll let you know when I do know.

    Who would you recommend?
     
    #8 yotarou, Jan 27, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2008
  9. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Whats your style of play? Who is your idol? Just follow them. Watch their video again and again... focus from waist down. Too many advice may confuse you and waste your time.
     
  10. yotarou

    yotarou Regular Member

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    Well, I noticed that I use the cross-step a lot. And I try to be an offensive player, and I usually don't do too many net shots, though I'm still trying to get better at drops.

    I actually don't have an idol at the moment because I don't follow badminton on TV... since none of my channels have it. I really don't know how to pick a favorite, either. I guess you could say I'm really indecisive. :p
     
  11. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    use me then... hehehe... youtube has lots of them... you will be in tears..
     
  12. westwood_13

    westwood_13 Regular Member

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    I feel as if you haven't really gotten the answers you were looking for. I can make no guarantees that I can be of any help, but I'll give it a try.

    1) There are two basic styles of footwork. A shuffle-based footwork with sliding focussed on a series of short, controlled jumps. This is very popular in China and is now spreading in to Europe. The other is a running-based footwork with a series of quick, short running-style steps taken forward to backward to reach the bird. This was very predominant in the game in the past, but is now being phased out, though it still exists in India, parts of Europe, and many players in the eastern/central US and Canada display it. Which type you go with is up to you, it also depends on your body style. If you have a low centre of gravity, shuffle is probably ideal, especially if you have a lot of lateral explosive power. If you are a very fast sprinter with good balance, the running is probably for you. Both kinds should be initiated with a small hop at the centre of the court which puts you into the best balance position to advance to the bird.

    Now, before anyone jumps down my throat, these are teh basics. But most advanced players use a combination of the two... for example, shuffling back from a net shot but running back from a lift, or running to a farther shot and shuffling to a closer one. It is important to master one, however, before trying to imcorporate another.

    3) It is okay if it is all you have, but you do risk ankle injury. Also it is best to practice footwork on court because you should attune yourself to the exact dimensions of the court. That way, when you go play in unfamiliar locations, it is easier to adjust yourself because your muscle memory already understands precisely where all the boundaries are.
     
  13. t3tsubo

    t3tsubo Regular Member

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    @ yotarou

    foot drag looks like "00:24 - 00:31" in that youtube video in your first post.

    edit: not just that section of the clip, but looking at that you can see when he does it in the rest of the video
     
    #13 t3tsubo, Jan 27, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2008
  14. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    The two types of footwork are associated with movement speed. The chasse footwork is used when the speed of movement is so large that it would cost you too much momentum to keep your feet on the ground any longer. However, if the movement speed is sufficiently low, having your body weight supported by the leg is more efficient.
     
  15. yotarou

    yotarou Regular Member

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    Thank you, westwood! That was very clear and now I have a better understanding. :) Do you think chasse steps are better when getting to the base/back of the court, or shuffling?

    To stumblingfeet: When you refer to movement speed as sufficiently low, you mean it's better to shuffle rather than lunge?

    Also, just as a general question... any basic footwork shadow drills out there that I could base my own practice off of? I found this one guy's on youtube but I think it's his own style so I dunno if that should necessarily be the base of my training, lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpam3NGAUqo
     
  16. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    A few notes on terminology:

    chasse: a fast gliding movement, with the leading foot stepping out quickly and quickly "chased" by the other foot (hence the name).

    shuffling: I use this term when someone tries to use the chasse at low speed. Instead of a single smooth gliding movement, the individual steps can be seen as the body bounces and the feet shuffle along at low speed. Typically you won't see the feet crossing over with this technique.

    crossover: the feet cross over in a stepping action.

    Shuffling, I don't recommend because it is inefficient. You see it a lot in people who have learned the "chinese" style of footwork, but aren't moving quickly enough to require hops instead of steps. If moving at that pace, crossover steps are much more energy efficient.

    Chasse is needed when the player needs to move quickly. In particular, when the player moves back for the jump smash, because the momentum can be transferred into a higher jump. Moving to the net, it is less useful, since the momentum needs to be absorbed with the lunge.

    As for training...
    I think that many people start training on their sport specific footwork patterns (e.g. doing shadow drills) too soon before they master their fundamental movement skills. Progress will eventually be limited by this lack of fundamental skill, and time could be wasted trying to blow through that plateau by doing even more sport specific footwork. Instead, be smart and work on you basic movement skills when off the court.

    In much the same way a beginner pianist will play finger exercises to learn how to play increasingly difficult key patterns at faster speeds, with consistent tone and rhythm, you want to learn how to move you body through increasing challenging movements at increasing loads without sacrificing movement rhythm or position.

    First basic movement is to jump up in the air, and land in a squat position. Stop instantly, and see if your body wobbles. If it does, that means that that height was too great for you to absorb properly. If you want, you can step off a box so you can measure exactly how much height you can absorb energy from.

    • As you get better, try landing off a sideways jump, backwards, then twist, etc.
    • Another way to progress would be to land in a split squat position, then single legged.
    • After you master that, perform a movement immediately after you land. For example, stepping off sideways off a box then jumping vertically (no excess sideways momentum from the first step). THis teaches you do redirect energy
    • Add some randomness: e.g. have a training partner throw a ball off to your side when you land, and you have to react and lunge in that direction
    • When you get good at that, increase the height of the box
    • When you get good at that, use elastic bands to slingshot you towards the ground. Note that very rarely are people actually prepared to do this type of training, I'm just throwing it out there so you can see the "ultimate" training method
    The above has enough basic movement skills, variations and progressions that can last you your entire athletic career. Most people I meet... can't even do the first task well (no wobbling, fast landing, from a height at least equal to their vertical jump).
     
  17. yotarou

    yotarou Regular Member

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    Haha, thanks for taking the time to explain terminology. :) And your training method sounds really practical and helpful. If I did that everyday, when do you think it would be OK to move onto the sport-specific footwork drills? Or, is it OK to do a combination of both? And, is a box necessary or can I just jump?

    Should I land flat-footed, heel first, or toes first?
     
  18. westwood_13

    westwood_13 Regular Member

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    As a general rule, you want to try to stay on the balls of your feet.
     
  19. KazeCloud

    KazeCloud Regular Member

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    Yotarou, have you got the address and name of that store?
     
  20. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Late to the party by about 1.5 years. I've a similar question. Having browsed through some of the answers here, still somewhat not clear.

    I heard one coach said chasse is faster from base to back corner. Chasse backward and chasse to the base, that is. However, another coach says this is slow, and that in the same situation, a cross-over step should be used, and afterward should run back quickly to the base.

    Now, I'm confused, and I'm talking about Singles footwork here. Which one is faster to move from base to deep corners, as well as for recovery. Of course, there's a "danger" your opponent would hit to the corner you just left if you run fast, does tiring you out quickly.

    Bottom line when to use which one? From Stumblingfeet's comment, it seems chasse should be preferred, as after all, why wouldn't anyone want to move faster?

    Help please. :confused:
     

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