backhand clear technique?

Okay, looking at those pictures, you appear to be using a version of the bevel grip or basic grip.

(Roughly speaking, "basic grip" is the new name in England for "forehand grip".)

You might be using a very slight shift towards the thumb grip ("backhand" grip), but the difference is tiny (small enough that it falls within the scope of individual variation and situational adjustments).

 

I'm not sure if my backhand grip shown in the picture is called "basic" grip or "forehand" grip because it certainly can not be used for making forehand clear or smash.

It's also clearly different than the "bevel" grip or "multipurpose" grip u're suggesting. I think my backhand grip is "between" your "multipurpose" grip and the "full" thumb grip.

That's why it provides more power than the "multipurpose" grip u're suggesting, but it does strecth your wrist more (which could be trained) in order to avoid slashing.

 

It could well be between the bevel and thumb grips. It's impossible to discern that level of detail from the photos.

You might be surprised which grips can be used for forehand clears or smashes. Again, it depends on where the shuttle is. If the shuttle is level with the body, the basic grip is good. As the shuttle gets farther behind you, however, shift towards a thumb grip ("backhand" grip). Farther in front: shift towards a panhandle grip (not too much!). It's like a mirror image of the backhand grip adjustments.

The "forehand grip"/"backhand grip" names suggest that there is a big difference between forehand and backhand grips. In fact, every "forehand" grip has a backhand application, and vice-versa (usually with slight adaptations of the finger positions). When the shuttle is level with the body, forehand and backhand grips are identical (or almost identical).

As for "stretching your wrist more": wrist flexibility is generally not limited by muscles or tendons, but by the wrist joint itself. I don't believe flexibility training will do much for the range of motion of the wrist.

Also, as a general point, muscular movements are more powerful in the normal range of a joint. Towards the limits of joint range, muscular movements are weaker. That's partly why we hit overheads at "full relaxed reach" -- that is, with a slightly bent arm, not a completely straight one.

Any grip choice that forces you to play a power stroke at the edge of your range of motion will reduce power.

I don't think your grip is wrong; I just think you're making it sound more exciting than it actually is. It looks like a bevel/basic grip to me, or a slight variant. Once we reach this level of detail, the differences are not relevant to teaching: players will learn minor grip adjustments much better by experimenting, rather than being given a "brand new grip" (which is really very similar to what they already use).

Again, simplicity is key. Teaching a few simple grips (Badminton England has four) is more effective than teaching lots of grips. The way for players to gain subtlety with "in-between" grips is by their experimenting, and understanding some general principles (such as, adjust the angle of your grip depending on where the shuttle is).

Anyway, as a recap for backhands (this is what I think, and what my national coaching body thinks):

• Shuttle roughly level with body: use a bevel grip (or a basic grip)
• Shuttle in front of body: move towards a thumb grip
• Shuttle behind body: move towards a panhandle grip

 

I really do understand that forehand grips and backhand grips could overlap each other when used to hit shuttles at the back or front of your body. Since maybe i'm not a coach, i'm not as patient as u in explaining every detail. When I said forehand clears or smash or others, what I meant is the most general way doing them. As doing them under specific circumstances could be done naturally or by experiments supported by common sense (as u said with ur simplicity theory).

Let's go back to the issues:

which one is more or less powerful, why?
- you think that streching the wrist more would reduce the power. I agree but i believe that reduced in power is only significant when u strech your wrist too much. From scale 1-10, 10 is them maximum strech, my backhand grip only requires 2-3 for learners. As for me, I honestly don't feel any strech at all. However, learners avoid using this kind of grip because they don't feel comfortable in the first place. They would rather go for your backhand grip that is more comfortable in the first place. The point is that the feeling of discomfort would be gone when u have enough practice with it. Then, u'll get the power advantage of it.
- As for the reasoning to why I think mine is more powerful is because the area of the thumb in mybackhand grip that is in contact with the grip is larger than the one in your backhand grip. Now, I hope we're agree that your thumb plays a crucial role in order to generate power for backhand. That larger area of thumb contact would yield in greater power generation. Not only it has larger contact area, but the direction of the force done by the thumb would be perpendicular to the plane. In your backhand grip, it can not be perpendicular because your thumb lies on the slope of the bevel.

Again, my backhand grip should be used in order to make backhand clear, drive, or smash, in their most general form.

In order to make things clear:

Your backhand grip ("multipurpose" grip): Picture 3.jpg
My backhand grip (between "multipurpose" and "full" thumb grip): Picture 4.jpg
"full" thumb grip:Picture 5.jpg

 

no problem at all.. i hope u find something useful from our arguments.

 

Those photographs are much clearer. I can see now that you are correct: there is a distinct difference between the bevel grip and your backhand grip. Your grip is indeed between a bevel and thumb grip. (So we do have a real, and not merely apparent, difference of opinion.)

In my view, this should produce less power, not more. Although you will be able to make the shuttle travel straight, your ability to rotate the arm should be reduced. This is similar to using a semi-panhandle grip for forehands: it feels more natural to many players, precisely because there is less rotation -- but the rotation gets you power.

Of course, it depends on where the shuttle is. If it's more in front of you, then your grip is better.

As with the forehand, the backhand hitting action should have the side of the frame leading, as though you are about to cut the shuttle with the frame. Then you turn it violently at the last moment, using the finger tightening to control the motion. Check out the slow-motion video of Zhao JianHua:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqiR2vVn-J8 (slow-motion clip at about 1:15)

 

You mention that your grip has this advantage: "the direction of the force done by the thumb would be perpendicular to the plane". That's not relevant. The racket should not be moving in a plane, it should be rotating.

You also mention that "That larger area of thumb contact would yield in greater power generation." I do not see why this should be true. Indeed, a reductio ad absurdum would show that, by the same principle, you ought to have all of your thumb in contact with the handle (a very tight grip!).

What matters is that your thumb can control a sudden, violent rotation of the racket head as part of the grip tightening. The bevel grip does this better, when the shuttle is roughly level with the body. This rotation is what generates racket head speed.

Why does rotation get more racket head speed? It's just the way we're built (biomechanics).

 

I tend to side with gollum, as I use his type of gripping (very succesfully, compared to other grips) naturally (when it's behind my body)

I find the whole "flexible wrist" misguiding...you'll see people who don't have to much wriststrength/proper technique have their wrist cocked back and doing a floppy action, often mistiming a powerless hit..

I think the wrist should be reasonably taught (not gripping your racket hard, but just a bit stiff a wrist) This way your elbow moving upwards fast causes a sharp, fast wristsnap (hooray for biomechanics, I think) producing power and easy timing..

until we dó have the high-speed wrist of taufik, I would advise against his big-swing wrist action...

 

Can anyone explain the powerball and a relevant website, thanks!

 

dude...why post your reply(about nathan) in a TOTALLY different thread?

how about http://www.powerball-europe.com/

 

A little off topic but nice racquet and new speakers!!

 

I incorporated use of the bevel grip after watching the Zhao Jianhua lesson. It is indeed useful for hitting shots in which the shuttle is already past the plane of one's body.

Second, the bevel grip allows me to swing the racket head through a larger arc compared to the thumb grip, so it is more useful for building wrist strength when I am using a training racket with cover on for "shadow" stroke drills.

 

I think there are generally 3 types of backhand grip, each to suit the 3 positions where the shuttle is being hit. In front of you it is the thumb on the biggest bevel. On your side it is across the diagonal bevel towards the big bevel. Behind you it is on the small side bevel. Something like horses for courses, because one "size" doesn't fit all. Sounds too simple. But is that all?

 

this is what

this is what rahman sidek told me about taking shots with your back hand he asked me to get a squash racquet and pretend that your taking the shot like around 50 times and slowly increase the amont of times and you hv to do this everyday and he told me after 6 months to a year when you take a shuttle with your back hand it will feel like nothing and it will be like a lob with your forehand.

 

I agree that the rotation would generate the power for the backhand shot. However, if that is the power generation theory, I would argue that my backhand grip would provide even more rotation than yours, thus, resulting in faster racket head swing.

As I said before, this is due to the larger area of thumb contact and the direction of the force relative to the grip. however, it seems that u haven't understood my theory. I would explain them in more detail.

The larger area of Thumb Contact.
As what I've or u might learn in physics, Force in this case is equal to Pressure times the area. F = P.A . Therefore, as the contact area gets larger, the force acting on that body (in this case, the racket grip) would be greater. This greater force would yield a faster rotation and thus, faster racket head speed. Faster racket head speed that comes in contact perpendicularly with the shuttle would transfer the momentum to the shuttle effectively, and thus, faster shuttle acceleration and final velocity.

However, in your case, the area of the thumb contact with the grip is smaller because it rests on the bevel side of the grip.

The direction of the force relative to the grip.
The greater force transfered by the larger area contact would be not effective if the direction of the force is not parallel to the direction of trajectory (the path of movement).
If we assume that there would be a plane (in this case the grip surface) that is perpendicular to the trajectory, travelling along the path, then the force acting on that plane has to be perpendicular to the plane in order to maintain its parallel orientation with the trajectory.
This direction of force that is parallel to the trajectory or perpendicular to the plane (racket grip in this case), would yield in the most effective transfer of force to the racket grip.

The mathematical perspective would be:
1. Force perpendicular to the plane: FR = F sin 90. Sin 90 = 1.
That means FR = F. FR (the force transfered) is equal to F (the initial force generated from your thumb).

2. Force not perpendicular to the plane: FR = F sin (0 < angle < 90), sin ( 0< angle < 90) is less than one. That means FR would be less that F.
As we can see that number one would yield greater resulting force than number two.

However, in your case (which is number 2 because the thumb lies on the slope of the bevel) the direction of the force is not paralell to the trajectory and therefore it's not perpendicular to the moving plane (the surface of the racket grip). Thus, it would yield less effective transfer of force.

As far as streching your wrist more (which is a bad way to put it) is actually just a slight discomfort when beginners adjust to my backhand grip. Once, they've practiced with it enough, that slight feeling of streching would be gone, and thus, they would benefit from its greater power generation based on my theory above.

Gollum, try to watch the video u posted again (1:20 - 2:28). During that time Zhao Jian Hua agrees that the trainee's bachand grip (which is similar to mine) is best used for making the shots when the shuttle has not passed your body. He suggested using your backhand grip when the shuttle has passed your body.

In conclusion, I would argue that my backhand grip is the most general backhand grip because most of the time, not only u hit the shuttle before it passed your body, YOU MUST HIT THE SHUTTLE BEFORE IT PASS YOUR BODY, as your whole body would help to generate more power and your opponents would have less recovery time.

 

yes, I don't even feel streching my wrist at all when hitting the shuttle before it pass my body, even when I hit a crosscourt backhand clear.

and yes, for making backhand shots in their most general form, your thumb is the indispensable tool that would transfer every piece of power generated from your wrist action.

 

There is a world of difference between hitting the shuttle before it passes your body and one that has passed your body by a yard.