(Video) help with technique and unforced erros

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Oliver Trimmer, Oct 11, 2023.

  1. Oliver Trimmer

    Oliver Trimmer New Member

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    Hey, im a junior county player who wants to focus on singles, im just trying to see if anyone can help me with any incorrect technique i have and offer me tips to improve.

    I generally play with quite a high tempo but because of this i make a lot of unforced errors, if anyone could help me with either strategies to cut down on errors or how to lower my tempo it would be much appreciated

    I've got 3 videos of me playing singles with someone else from my county sessions

    This is my first time posting on badmintoncentral, if ive done anything wrong can someone let me know and ill fix it :)



     
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  2. BadmintonDave

    BadmintonDave Regular Member

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    Tempo is a fun discussion. Everyone has their own preferred tempo and style of play. You play with a high tempo, but what happens when your opponent changes the tempo of the game and forces you to play slower, more calculated, and more accurately?

    I watched all the footage and there indeed were a lot of errors. Some serving into the net, shots going out. How can you minimise those mistakes? I would say try aiming a bit more into the court. Aim say 2-5CM inside of the line.

    Perhaps if you get your racquet in position quicker when travelling backwards for overhead shots it will improve your accuracy and shot selection / deception. See what happens at 3:35 in the first video.

    Have you played half court singles before? It could be a fun exercise to help you with accuracy and a bit of defence.

    Consider posting the same thread to r/badminton. You'll get more eyes on you and even more suggestions.
     
  3. Oliver Trimmer

    Oliver Trimmer New Member

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    thanks for the response and advice, I struggle changing tempo during a rally and I know its something I need to work on, I find when I play a slower tempo my opponents capitalise and gain an advantage since (as you can tell) my accuracy isn't very good, something im assuming someone who plays a slower tempo would need

    with all the mistakes it's a mental problem for me right now, I know I need to play safer but sometimes I rush and go for a game winning shot, only for it to fly out. im working on just playing more towards the middle right now but it's gonna take a while for me to internalise that

    also this is a bit of a sidetrack, but my coaches have said my swing is very slow and uses the shoulder too much, is there anything I could do to focus that and make it so I use my wrist more?

    I do some half court singles before games and everything is pretty accurate then, but when I get in full court I just wanna go for winners the whole time, like I said its a mental thing!

    im doing a lot of training on my own (around 8 hours a week solo, 6 hours with others) so if there's anything I could do on my own to help accuracy I would appreciate suggestions :)
     
  4. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

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    I have had a similar journey when it comes to learning to play at a lower tempo. When you play fast, the tempo of the game puts pressure on the opponent. This pressure allows you to get away with subpar shots. You can play shots that aren't of great quality and get away with it because the opponent doesn't have enough time to punish it.

    You will notice when you play slower, this pressure is absent. Because the opponent now has more time, they can punish lower quality shots more easily. Therefore, the quality of your shots needs to be higher.

    I like to play fast. It is my weapon. It's how I can challenge players with a better technique. But over the past few years, overuse injuries and age has forced me to change my game. I will still try to play fast when I can, because it is so effective, but I need a backup plan for when I face someone that can challenge my speed, or for when I get too tired.

    When playing slower, it is more important to stay on balance, to play higher quality shots, and to be more tactically aware. Footwork and shot quality is just a matter of training, and I imagine you get plenty. If your fitness allows it, try to keep a lower, wider stance. It will improve your defence and help you stay on balance during the rally.

    But the real difference is tactics. When the opponent is not under speed pressure, they can more easily punish any bad shot, but also any bad choice of shot. When playing fast it can be rewarding to play aggressive. Even if it doesn't score, it can put enough pressure on the opponent to prevent them from taking initiative. When playing slower, it is more dangerous to be aggressive, because the opponent is more likely to be on balance throughout the rally, and able to counter your shots.

    Instead, the emphasis should be to stay in control of the rally, and to play shots that don't give the opponent a chance to be dangerous. Ideally, they shouldn't have enough time to play full power smashes while staying on balance. So each lift needs to be either low enough so they can't get under properly, or far enough away from them that they don't have enough time to get under properly, or perfectly high and deep so even if they can get under, it is not too dangerous for you. An important factor to ensure you are never forced to play a short lift is to challenge the net at all costs. Always try to stay in control of the net. If you tend to win net exchanges, play the net as much as you can. If the opponent is dangerous at the net, don't play shots that allow the opponent to play tight netshots. Shots further into court, or more away from him (like crosses) can be safer than shorter netshots. The shorter to the net the opponent can take the shuttle, the easier it is for him to play closer to the net as well. If you lose the net, you have lost the control of the rally. Even if you are not winning at the net, just making sure your opponent can't force you into disadvantage at the net is enough to stay in control.

    Every opponent is different. I can write a book on how to play, but depending on your opponent it could all be wrong. Learn to identify how you are winning and losing points. The reason you won or lost the rally is rarely the last shot. Which shot did you play to give the opponent the advantage? Was the shot a bad choice of shot, or was it a good choice but badly executed? Which shot did you play that put the opponent in disadvantage? You can only adapt to you opponents if you ask yourself these questions all the time. If you lost a rally, ask yourself why. If you won a rally, ask yourself why. The more you do this, the better you will get at spotting patterns and adapting to opponents.

    Playing slower can be more difficult than playing fast, because everything else has to be better.

    If you ever wonder how older slower players seem to beat younger supposedly better players, this is how. They figure out what wins them points, and what gets punished. Then they just try to stay in control of the rally by avoiding all the shots that get punished and playing into situations that are advantageous to them.

    In short: Wider stance, Stay in control of the net, Adapt to your opponents.
     
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  5. Oliver Trimmer

    Oliver Trimmer New Member

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    ive got a session coming up today so ill keep in mind everything you said, up until now i havent really been focusing on my opponents playstyles and shot choices, ive just been playing what i think my favourite shots are so ill try and observe what they are stronger and weaker at. With the wider stance, if im consciously thinking about it i notice that i can react faster and get a lot of shots back that i normally wouldnt, but i find it hard to stay focused on that throughout the game, a lot of my issues are in my head. Ill try and keep reminding myself to stay low and make sure to keep my center of gravity lower and how much of a difference that makes. with controlling the net, i find that i try and play net shots that are much too tight a lot of the time, and this results in many mistakes and often my opponents play to the net because they know i have a tedency to do this.

    i think a lot of my issues are i mentally think that i have to play shots on the line to win as this is how a lot of pros play, often forgetting how much incomparably better they are than me! right now its a work in progress about playing safer shots but im slowly but surely getting better at it. ive only been playing properly for less than a year so im still a bit unsure on some of the basics, if anyone sees something im massively messing up thats fundamental please let me know!

    Also would anyone like me to keep putting updates in maybe every week or even more frequently to see how everything is developing?
     
  6. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

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    The lower your stance is, the faster you will be out of your splitstep, so it's good to try and make it a habit. However, it also asks more of the muscles, so it requires a certain fitness. Initially you will find that your performance improves, but your legs will tire faster. As time goes on, you will get used to it to some extent, but nearly everyone will revert to a more upright stance when they are tired enough.

    When it comes to shot quality, certain margins are more important than others. With lifts and clears, it is more important to hit it close to the back line. Hitting it close to the sideline doesn't matter nearly as much. With short serves, net shots, and pushes, it is usually more important to hit it low over the net. It doesn't matter nearly as much where exactly they land. Of course these are generalisations, and it is good to hit shots that are perfect on all margins, but most shots do not need to be perfect, they just need to be good in one particular aspect.

    At most levels, even at the top, most matches are decided by mistakes rather than winners. It is such a waste to hit a shot out because you wanted to hit the sideline, especially if you weren't under pressure. It is almost never a necessary risk. Hitting lifts out the backline is more excusable, because it is usually important that your lifts are a good length, so every now and then it will fly too far.

    It good to hear that most of your limitations are mental, because it means that you can improve greatly in a short time. All you have to do is break through those mental barriers. However, it is difficult to be disciplined. You have to make the conscious decisions until it becomes a habit. It can also be overwhelming to implement many things at once.

    I think the best way forward is to take the advice, choose one thing what you think will help you the most, and focus solely on that until you are happy with the result. And only then focus on something else.
     
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  7. BadmintonDave

    BadmintonDave Regular Member

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    What have they suggested you do?

    Paul Stewart is an experienced coach who could help you out. I went to one of his last in person group coaching weekends last year and it was very beneficial. He does online also.

    -
    If you want to improve accuracy, you either do the shot over and over and over again and see where the shuttles land. Hopefully with time the accuracy improves. Or you do a short ralley to put you under a bit of pressure and move, and see how accurate you are and practice that way.

    Place markers or targets on the court where you are aiming at. Cardboard box, shuttle tube, small plastic cones, anything useful for the area you are aiming at. The direction the racquet head is at the point of impact affects accuracy the most.

    -
    If you've seen Masons' megathread on the forum it's worth a view. He's a club player from usa and every few months or weeks he posts a video update like you have done. I would certainly give you feedback if you post more videos of your Journey.
     
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    1. You need to play more tournaments and matches. Learning from experience and realising what you shouldn’t do within a rally is an important decision making skill to master in the heat of the moment.

    2. videos of you doing training routines will help us observe where you could improve technique

    3. Slow overhead stroke speed could be related to technique or inefficient preparation or both. We would be able to see that more clearly with videos of on court training routines

    4. as others have mentioned developing the lower leg strength is very important. Once you have the strength, developing power (generating that power in a shorter time) is important.
     
    #8 Cheung, Oct 16, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2023
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  9. Oliver Trimmer

    Oliver Trimmer New Member

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    Played yesterday and tried to focus more on just playing inside the lines and trying to keep the shuttle alive instead of going for risky winning shots, it felt like i had more of a proper game but still sometimes revert to trying to smash on the lines, its gonna take a while to fully realise that i dont have to play risky to win.

    I also focused on trying to stay a bit lower with my split step and keep my centre of gravity low, realised that my legs were feeling more tired than usual midway through so gonna work on developing strength in the lower leg to make sure i dont tire as quickly

    Recently ive been feeling like im on the backfoot whenever i serve, it feels like no matter what shot they play in a return to the serve i either end up lifting/giving them an advantage or play a high risk shot that often ends badly, if theres anything im doing wrong specifically for serve return help would be much appreciated!

    Finally with tempo i was trying to constantly change, i wasnt expecting to be very good at this straightaway and safe to say im not :) but ill keep working on it, im gonna need it once i start playing better and better people. As people have mentioned ill try and get some training routines videoed soon but not sure if certain places will allow it so might not be very soon!

    Also something went wrong with the audio so unless you like the sound of deafening static i would mute the video! camera wasnt affected though so video should still be decent quality, also for reference in case you werent sure im the one closest to the camera



     
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  10. baddiechan

    baddiechan Regular Member

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    A few things to say overall, some already mentioned by yourself and others - nice to see the awareness.

    1. Slow swing - I believe this is due to incorrect use of the forearm, pronation and supination. Sometimes your stroke looks off, maybe your grip isn't relaxed enough because it seems to affect your nets and low serve. Those are a symptoms to me of not using your wrist and fingers properly to generate power & control instead of the whole arm. Work on compacting your overhead action - focus more on the supination and pronation.

    2. Tactically you and your sparring partner play too many cross-court shots, maybe it's related to your mindset of finishing the rally quickly. General rule of thumb is to play 75%-80% straight, build up the points - example move your opponent closer to one corner and then play a cross.

    3. Do you warm up prior to these sessions? Something simple like 50 straight clears, drops & lifts to give you a feel of the conditions and reduce your unforced errors can help lift the quality of your shots.

    4. A lot of the shots being played are high and low, there aren't many flat/fast pushes or drives. Adding these in at the right time will elevate your game, smashing isn't the only way to win points.
     
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  11. dnewguy

    dnewguy Regular Member

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    Hello,

    I agree with baddiechan over the supination/pronation and swing correction.
    In the first three videos it looked as if you are hitting almost all overhead shots with pronation like a stick smash with your arm following towards your right thigh.

    I'm not a coach so can't comment on the right/wrong way of every shot execution. You are relatively new & learning so I guess the swing would definitely get smoother overtime.

    What I observed is that you hardly play shots to opponents front forehand corner. That's my favourite corner.
    In my experience, it's difficult to play good returns net/long from that place. For me it sets up nice smash from my backhand corner but you will need strong legs/explosive power to put it away.

    I would also suggest being more explosive and reaching the shuttle earlier WHEN you can, that will put pressure on the opponent to move faster too.
    Attack his body, see If he chokes.

    Cheers.
     
  12. BadmintonDave

    BadmintonDave Regular Member

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    This can backfire in singles. Don't do it too often.
    It's safer to make the opponent move and put them under pressure that way in singles.
     
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  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    You made excellent progress over a year.

    I visited England earlier this month. I watched a silver county junior tournament and saw some gold county juniors training.

    One thing I noticed about English players is when it’s an overhead shot is they hang the racquet down a lot when preparing. They only bring the racquet up when the shuttle drops into the hitting zone. This is okay at lower level play but when the action speeds up, you will feel slower. Your issue is hanging the racquet down, slow preparation and not having the elbow high enough.

    What changes will help?

    First, get a better starting position of your arm. I just pointed out a much better position in another thread

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...technique-and-catch-the-birdie-higher.191642/


    Secondly, when you arm swings upwards, your elbow is too low. Try to stretch up to the ceiling more with your right shoulder and elbow.


    With these two changes, you will get a better hitting position with a smaller swing. Smaller swings take less time than longer swings and easier to control the hitting of the shuttle translating to better accuracy.

    The third thing that is really advantageous is to raise your arm at the same time as the first step from the base. At the moment, you run and when your body reaches the position on court, you raise the racquet. Try to raise the racquet into the better position as just described earlier with your first reaction. Takes a little getting used to but once you get used to it, you’ll get a lot of advantage in taking the shuttle earlier.

    The most likely reply is a forecourt straight shot to his backhand forecourt.

    From the videos , it looks like he might not be changing to a conventional backhand grip for the shot making it harder to play strokes in that area of the court. I.e. he’s deliberately trying to avoid playing shots where the reply is most likely to go to the backhand forecourt
     
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  14. lordrogue

    lordrogue Regular Member

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    I'm a quite experienced junior coach, take from it what you will, but to me it looks like your errors are mainly due to your preparation and grip issues.
    You are preparing with your racket low, and the back court swing upwards has become a part of the actual clear motion. It's clumsy and takes extra time. Your wrist is locked sideways in your preparation with the palm glued to your racket, as if you're afraid of dropping it. You're also holding the racket too far up the grip. You have a little bit of the supination preparation tendency, which is quite common, but can be difficult to correct.
    You're mainly generating whip power with the wrist, when it should be the forearm into the fingers. The wrist is not irrelevant, but it should be used to help the fingers find better angles to cut and slice. Because of your grip issues you don't really know how to slice, which is why you struggle with the deep corners a lot.

    The footwork looks good to me, of course it's not perfect but for your level it's not what's holding you back.
    What to do? You can practice slices and other softer back court shots with a relaxed wrist, enabling the power to transfer to your fingers by leaving space between the palm and the racket. Make the shots feel playful, don't stress power, don't whip until you get the correct feeling. Preferably use a thinner grip than you're comfortable with. Also practice the correct preparation motion (you know how it should look) without a shuttle, don't make it stiff, make it nonchalant.

    *edit* I just saw the post was half a year old, oh well :)
     
    #14 lordrogue, Mar 8, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2024
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  15. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Even top international players so highest level, can have a low racket prep, but it just means they start the swing earlier. When there is less time, then they'd do a high racket prep. And many might do a high racket prep regardless.

    I once had some coaching involving low racket prep and one can even start the swing as one moves back.

    Can you point to anywhere where he took the shuttle late because he had a low racket prep and started swing too late? Or because he had a low racket prep and there just wasn't time to have a low racket prep?

    Watching this video of his v=Dw5u6gLTQck at 3:19 (first video the 5:30 one)

    Anyhow, height of racket prep aside.

    What I see is not really a low racket prep, but more significant than that, I don't really see a particular racket prep position.. so that might be an issue.

    For example

    if you look at LCW here

    [​IMG]


    LCW has gotten into a racket prep position.

    And it's not going to be low in that scenario with a round the head and that footwork. (There would be other cases of a low racket prep).

    But my point is, there is a racket prep position there.

    Whereas if we look here

    [​IMG]

    that's not really a racket prep.. that's mid swing.

    OP does take it early very nicely, as LCW does also early

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


    Whereas OP's swing starts here or even a moment before!

    [​IMG]


    It's really skipping out on a racket prep position

    If a low level player were to do what OP did, they'd often end up taking it a lot later. But OP has some skills and did that while timing it all well and managing to take it early

    But even LCW does a racket prep there. And it would make it easier to be more consistent.

    i'm no expert though so don't know if others agree with me on that..

    EDIT- A point just incase somebody reads this and gets confused. Nowhere here am I saying low racket prep is optimal or that low racket should be done instead of high racket prep. And nowhere here am I saying that low racket prep is better than high racket prep. On the contrary, high racket prep is easier. I am also not claiming that the OP is even doing a low racket prep. And besides that, most of this post isn't even discussing height of racket prep. More about simply doing a racket prep, which isn't exactly a controversial idea, and is part of what others have said too.
     
    #15 ralphz, Mar 8, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2024
  16. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    If you’re Lee Chong Wei or Lin Dan, you can do that. :)

    Since you’re not LCW nor LD with a background of training five or six days a week, either you don’t want to change with a trade off of limitation of improvement or you change for improvement.

    because it can be done, doesn’t mean it is an efficient nor optimal technique.

    What level of badminton are you at? Club? League matches (which division)? County level 4? County bronze?
     
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Vitidsarn prepares his overhead quite beautifully.

     
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