I was thinking about, why steeper smashes seem faster.. I remember hearing that steeper smashes seem faster. Has anybody else heard that? If thinking about it in terms of two a diagonal line, going down, that's the hypoteneuse, the longest line, so if anything by that, it'd be a longer distance, more time for the shuttle to slow down. Gravity could be a factor? Maybe gravity helps steeper smashes even more than flatter ones.. I was wondering if another possibility is the angle of them is a bit outside of what the eye is most able to focus on, so the brain has to fill in more.. Like how sometimes it's easier to it aim the shuttle if you crouch down so your eyes are at the level of the shuttle.. So with a cross court net shot if it's low it's easier to hit it well if you crouch low. Head to a similar level as racket. Similar thing with aiming a gun the gun is brought to eye level , making it easier to aim. Or if firing a rifle from a low point, you get down to its level. Maybe the brain's unconscious physics calculations are more complex when the object is not so in front of the eye.So it's harder for the brain to "slow it down".. Whereas when the brain is having an easier time with the unconscious calculations, it's easier for it to feel like one has more time as if the shuttle is coming slower. Another factor though which I think might really be the main thing, or the thing.. Is that the kind of shots that we hit steeper, are the ones that we can take earlier, from not as far back. 'cos when we are further back, we can't hit it as steep and have it still go over the net. And if we hit it from not so far back, then there is less time between hitting it, and it reaching the opponent's racket, or the floor, so the shuttle will have had less time to slow down. A really tall player doesn't just take it higher ,, by taking it higher, they are taking it earlier too. i.e. not as far back. Similarly net kills are super fast / powerful even, because they have less distance to travel so less time to slow down. The moment they are hit, they are not as fast as a smash would be, but their speed over the net is probably faster.'cos compared to a smash, they'd have barely slowed down If somebody does a poor lift that isn't high and a player runs forward and hits it hard and flat, then that's very powerful/fast, and not steep. And it's probably at least as powerful as a steep one, because it's perhaps taken as early as a steep one is, from the same point as it is the shuttle travels the same distance, I guess maybe even slightly less distance actually because the hypotenuse is less diagonal..and the player has more likely got their while body into it. . Curious what thoughts people have on this.
This I disagree with. Shuttles are really light, and there would be a tiny, tiny, tiny difference in the time the gravity force is applied to the shuttle comparing both trajectories. - Overall, the steeper the trajectory the harder it is to judge. And the less time you'll have to react to it? Those are my thoughts. Also congrats on your 1000th message when it happens ^^.
I think the gravity thing might not have much affect.. was just a possibility.. But there are the other mentioned explanations.. However. How else besides gravity would you explain the fact that if you take some pace of a smash, it lands shorter? . I think there's something to be said about it being harder to judge(it's one of the possibilities mentioned in my first post).. But when you say "less time you'll have to react to it". Do you mean literally less time? 'cos if looking at literally the time the shuttle takes, then, assuming it's hit from the same distance across the floor, it's actually a slightly longer distance to travel, 'cos if you think about it, the higher a shuttle is hit from, just lengthens the hypotenuse. . (if you think a triangle where the points are where your feet are, where their feet are, and where they contact the shuttle). One of the possible things going on is the brain finds it harder to slow down.. So I can see how it might give some people the illusion that they have less time. Also if practising many smash defenses, then even for the same trajectories, you'll have the illusion that you have more time, as the brain gets used to it. So when you speak of "less time", are you talking about illusion re time, related to how much time the brain has vs how much time the brain needs, so, less time in the sense of the brain feels more pressured. Vs, are you talking about time in the sense of physics / an outside clock timing the shuttle's journey? Or do you mean the time it takes to figure out where it's going is longer on the steeper shuttle and so therefore, by the time you can start moving to the shuttle, the steeper shuttle's journey is shorter in duration. So if that's so, then steeper smashes have a deceptive quality, but I wonder if that's because of the field of vision(which is a factor I mentioned in the first post), or because of lighting getting in the way, or both. Also what do you make of the simple explanation in the last two paragraphs of my first post.. that if we are not usually facing players that jump high into the air and smash it steep from the back, then maybe the steep smashes we get tend to be from players that are further forwards. So the shuttle's distance is shorter than one taken from the back. That even alone will give you less time, literally. (though granted some shuttle taken from further forward could be steep if taken high, but others where somebody has run forward are often where the shuttle has dropped and are taken lower and are flatter) Well forecast! I don't know what to say to that one!! One of either ["Yikes" ,"Ah" ,"Thanks"]. Like a birthday when you're a bit old!
Speed is speed, and angle is angle. They are 2 aspects of the shot that are not related. You can play fast steep shots. You can play fast flat shots. You can play slow steep shots, and you can play slow flat shots. What is relevant for badminton is time. If the opponent has a lot of time to react to the shot, they will not be in trouble. If the opponent has little time, they are more likely to hit a bad return. So how can you make sure the opponent has less time? You can hit a faster shot, but there is a limit to the speed you can give a shuttle which depends on muscle and technique. The other factor is angle. The steeper the shot, the earlier it hits the floor. If 2 players hit a smash from the same distance from the net but one strikes it at a higher point, and at the net both shuttles travel at the same height just above the net tape (as you would try to do in a match), then due to the angle, the shuttle struck from a higher point won't travel as far into the opponent's court as the shuttle struck from lower. And the difference in distance between where the shuttles land is greater than the difference in the height where the shuttles were struck. Therefore, the steeper shot is shorter from racket to floor, than the flatter shot. But this was just about the time the receiver has from the moment the shuttle leaves the attacker's racket. If a player receives a lift, the shuttle will likely be in a downwards trajectory at the first possible moment the player can hit the shuttle. So in this case, the earliest possible moment the player can hit the shuttle is simultaneously the highest possible moment. If we start the clock from when the lift leaves the defender's racket, then if the attacker hits his shot earlier, the defender has had less time to recover and get ready for the smash. Furthermore, if an attacker somehow manages to hit a shot unusually early, the defender can often not be mentally ready for the shot because it disturbs their rhythm. So the steepness of a shot doesn't make the shot faster, but it will be on the floor earlier. Furthermore, in order to hit a steep shot, it needs to be hit from a high point, and the highest point is usually the earliest point, which means the defender has had less time to recover and be ready for the smash.
Well, even in a match, some people aren't good at defending a flatter smash.. Some might get thrown off by the occasional flatter smash I mentioned that issue to a coach once and as a remedy to it, they said, in doubles then if defending from a further forward position, use crouching defense.. So then it's easy to get a higher flat one eg a shoulder level one. And if defending from far back, and they hit it a bit high and flat, then leave it as it'd be out . If standing in between the two positions, then there's more switching grips 'cos you'd start with a bevel grip or thumb grip, but if they hit it higher and to forehand, then you'd have to switch to panhandle or forehand grip. . What do you think about that? The person smashing higher and flatter is taking a risk but it can work sometimes I think this isn't necessasrily the case and depends on the contact point. (and like you mention the height over the net). For example here the image has two different shots. One steeper one flatter. I haven't drawn the floor but one could draw it as a line perpendicular to the net. The steeper one doesn't land less far down the court, it lands the same distance along the floor / x axis.. And if you look at each shot as a hypotenuse of a triangle where the adjacent line is a line parallel with the floor, then the shot trajectory, the hypotenuse is longer with the steeper one here. I see that It illustrates the point you made re height over the net because the steeper one has gone higher over the net. But given the same contact point(as in the image below), then the steeper one would indeed hit the floor closer to the net. (and would mean a lower point over the net too for the steeper one) Or like you say, given the same height over the net, the steeper one would land closer(in the x axis) And no doubt given any two of the three factors (Contact point, height over the net, point where shuttle hits floor), it'd determine the trajectory and thus steepness of the line..'cos any two points can produce the line. In post #1 I was thinking of contact point and point where the shuttle lands.. but you make a good point re mentioning point where shuttle passes over the net. good points.. I'm curious what you think about, if some pace is taken off a smash, so a half smash rather than a full smash Same contact point. Same racket face angle. The half smash does land not as far down the court. I imagine that's due to it being slower and thus in the air longer, allowing gravity to take effect on it for longer, and causing the trajectory to be imperceptibly curved.. What do you think? So a half smash would increase in steepness slightly in its journey, albeit less than a drop or fast drop would. But that imperceptible curve caused by the gravity might explain why a smash with less pace, lands not as far into the court?
Well, that's not necessarily true. And "earlier it hits the floor" is ambiguous, Hitting the floor earlier in this context is ambiguous because it could mean less far down the court from the net. Or it could mean at an earlier point in time. And also a ting to consider is the length of the trajectory of the shot. If the contact point is the same, and the shuttle is hit steeper, then it will hit the floor less far down the court.. And it won't be hit earlier in time. It will will be a shorter line. A shorter line will mean the shuttle has a shorter journey, has less time to slow down and thus will be faster on arrival. If the contact point is higher. (and of course we are assuming the player hitting it isn't standing further forward or further back).. If the contact point is higher then there is more potential for steepness(without going in the net), And it could be it steeper, but still go the same distance horizontally across the floor. So, not hitting the floor earlier. It could even be steeper and land a bit further. If you have a pole on the floor, you can raise one end and let the other end drag in. And I guess that the amount it raises up at one end would be equal to the amount it drags in on the other end. So you can raise the contact point, hit it steeper, hit it less far into the court, and not shorten the line . But I suppose it's also possible to raise the contact point, hit it steeper, hit it less far into the court, and shorten the line. That'd benefit from hitting it earlier in time, so it arrives earlier in time. Decreasing the distance of the journey so it arrives earlier still. And increasing speed it arrives at because due to the shorter in distance journey it will have less time to slow down. (That's assuming the speed on contact is the same). And not talking about cases of somebody being further forward and hitting it higher 'cos that'd clearly/obviously shorten the line allowing the shuttle to arrive sooner and at a faster speed.
