He BingJiao (何冰娇)

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by RedShuttle, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. mohans

    mohans Regular Member

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    Mate, did you not watch her previous encounter against BZ? Don’t you think HBJ had her slice of luck?

    I get it. She played well in the tournament. She scored a notable win against NO. How is this performance different from that in the WC ‘18? We know what happened later. I still feel she has the game to be in the top 5. I don’t think her performance in Tokyo will put her in any elite level that she wasn’t before

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    #361 mohans, Aug 31, 2021
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  2. Baddyforall

    Baddyforall Regular Member

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    Hearing the discussions, let me give my thoughts here. He bingjiao , even though she played well, she met an opponent who is better on that day. The cross court drops, Cross court smashes, net drops everything coming from Sindhu's racket were on point on that day.
    Whatever you try, if it keeps coming back with interest, then you can't do anything.
    He Bingjiao tried her level best. But Sindhu was too good for her on that day.
    There is no point in saying that He Binjiao was not motivated to get medal . Its of no use. Olympics is over. Why should a player coming to the Olympics , after losing the semifinals, instead of trying to get the bronze medal , lose it without 'MOTIVATION'. Lol. What logic is that?
     
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  3. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    Motivation is very relative, it varies individually. For top professional players in badminton, the goal is to win all the tournament they are in, anything less is considered a failure. These players do not celebrate for losing the final - I don't see Lei Chong Wei celebrate losing to Lin Dan in a final and vice-versa. Maybe HBJ's personal goal was to win the gold medal??

    I am not saying that I know HBJ to say that she was not motivated playing PV Sindhu for the bronze medal. I watched the match briefly and personally I think HBJ lost mainly in the tactical aspect. I felt she tried to match Sindhu's speed and it did not work, was not able to change the game plan and consequently lost the match. PV Sindhu won the match and deserved the bronze medal.
     
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  4. Baddie lover

    Baddie lover Regular Member

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    Hmm, maybe he has a point. I think by that logic, I believe Lee Hyun Il lost his two bronze medal playoffs to Chen Long (2012) and Chen Jin (2008) coz Lee Hyun Il main motivation was to win gold. He didn't give his best for Bronze medal playoff, hmmmm. That's why both the Chinese won bronze medals.

    Lol, it becomes laughable when there's a history of particularly one poster giving lame reasons for his players' loss (LD loss to KS in China open final 2014, LD loss to LCW in 2016 OG semis, HBJ loss to Sindhu and I'm sure many others). LD vs Momota when LD lost, there were always posts about two cents on why LD lost (coz he wasn't Super Dan). Those two cents become boring.

    My three cents. Acceptance is the key otherwise there'll be no mental peace.
     
  5. Sumanth99

    Sumanth99 Regular Member

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    Adding to this, playing without motivation means wasting public funds and betraying people of your country. Do you this HBJ would dare to commit treason against “Xi’s Party’s nation” which is no different from committing treason against Xi himself/herself ?
     
    #365 Sumanth99, Aug 31, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021
  6. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Oh please, you're overthinking, what treason, for not winning bronze medal??? Besides, nobody in his right mind thinks motivation can be enforced or coerced, if only.

    It's up to each individual, either you have it or you don't and it's partly influenced by the circumstances, including the stakes involved.
     
  7. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    No, I did not, missed the livestream. Where is the match available on youtube?

    Compare that match she played with Zhang Beiwen in the group stage vs her game with Nozomi Okuhara in the QFs. He Binjiao was also one game to the bad in the latter encounter and look how she stormed her way back to victory in style.

    Ask yourself, is NO any easier an opponent than ZBW? Or is NO in any way inferior to P V Sindhu, just look at their previous clashes, notably their 2018 WC?

    So, what makes you so sure HBJ couldn't or needed her slice of luck to beat ZBW due to the latter's injury while trailing 7-9 in G2 after bagging G1?

    As to whether HBJ is or can be in the same league as whoever you've in mind that she wasn't before, it's anybody's guess. However, I do feel based on not so much the past , particularly her remarkable run in 2018, but more on her current or most recent level - mostly her performance within China during the pandemic - and considering her new level of undeniable improvement in fitness, I am cautiously optimistic about her chances of resurgence or, better still, ascent to the top 3 going forward.

    Of course, all this is speculative talk and our personal observations, no one is certain about future developments. Let's look forward to see how the various players fare in the near future. both the established ones and the up-and-comers, a few of whom are already showing signs of breaking out just as some of the veterans are entering their last phase of their career.

    Let's hope the global pandemic is brought under manageable control by mid (a bit unrealistic?) next year and international competition can resume then (really hard to say in view of delta variant still ravaging and showing no signs of containment, not only that, there's also the threats of new variants, lambda?).
     
  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Sounds plausible. Except to note that motivation or lack thereof can affect one's game and it can and will tilt the balance in favour of one or the other where little separates them.

    Frankly, if I haven't watched how HBJ played and beat Nozomi in that quarterfinal match, I'd have nothing to say. Anyway, what's past is over, let's look forward, and I hope HBJ doesn't prove me wrong; at age 24, there's still a lot going for her and I earnestly hope her determination and single-mindedness the coming few years match her resolve in the way she shed those kilos off her weight, her talents never in doubt.
     
  9. mohans

    mohans Regular Member

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    I didn’t say she couldn’t have. But there was a slice of luck for someone who lost g1


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    #369 mohans, Sep 1, 2021
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  10. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    The problem is were Chen Long in 2012 and Chen Jin in 2008 in the same league as LD - LCW at that time? So too Lee Hyun-Il, that's why all three of them were happy to play for bronze.

    If it were LD or LCW having to miss out playing for gold ? Well , just put yourself in their shoes, how hard or motivated would you be having to fight for bronze the next day?

    As for KS, didn't he beat a knee-injured LD in that 2014 China Open? LD losing narrowly to LCW by deuce in G3 of the Rio'16 was no shame, it could've gone either way, but it definitely did affect LD's motivation having to settle for bronze medal playoff with VA.

    As for the eternal second LCW, it's well-known and well-documented how disappointed and frustrated he was time after time when he had to settle for silver in the majors. I remember in that London'12 final, when LCW lost and sat on his haunches, 'looking desolate' was how Gillian Clark described him - it dawned on me then , what if it were a semifinal that he lost and the following day he had to get ready, put the previous day's supposed devastating loss behind him, and try for bronze; I wonder what his state of mind would be like, his motivation , his form. From what I've gathered, most ,if not all, Olympians who were favourite contenders for gold were just not not in the right frame of mind to play for bronze when they missed the chance to fight for gold in the penultimate round.

    Here, we're merely expressing our personal opinions, often there's no right or wrong answers; where we disagree, so be it. But I wouldn't confuse expressing an opinion based on reasonable doubts or speculative probabilities from an outright denial of facts.
     
    #370 Justin L, Sep 1, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
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  11. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Fair enough, that's why the Laws of Badminton says, Rule 1 of Scoring System: A match consists of the best of 3 games of 21 points.

    The point is IF you believe HBJ won the match by luck, or a slice of luck if you wish, when ZBW was injured when trailing 7-9 in G2, your implication is she would probably have lost if not for ZBW's injury. That's where I differ as I speculate that even if ZBW were injured, there's a good probability HBJ would still go on to turn the tables on her opponent in a three-setter victory just like what she had done against NO the following round on the grounds that NO is an even tougher opponent than ZBW, and NO didn't play badly but was simply outplayed in the end.
    And what is the logic of Kento Momota losing to Heo Kwang Hee (who then went on to lose to Kevin Cordon the next round)? That HKH was the better player on the day, and why was it so?

    According to KM's interview, thanks to kurako's translation here https://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?threads/kento-momota-new-thread.186241/page-17, post #340. It wasn't all purely about tactics - he used expressions like:-
    1) "... but I did not have the courage or ability to adjust during the game and change the height.";
    2) "... I wanted to win so badly that there were parts of the game where I ended up just spinning my wheels (I supposed he meant he was just trying to guess where the shots are coming without thinking).";
    3) "... and started to become timid.";
    4)"... shows my emotional weakness.";

    So, in your opinion, where's the logic?

    I'd say in Momota's case, it was lack of mental strength as he caved in under tremendous pressure to live up to expectation on homeground, not a case of lack of motivation. In other words, forget about tactics when nerves got the better of you as your hands and legs no longer obey you.

    And it wouldn't be far-fetched for me to argue that had it been any other normal tournament , not the Olympics and on home soil ( as some thrive on home advantage whereas some tend to feel only added pressure), I'm pretty sure he would have put Heo Kwang Hee in his place and even went on to stop Viktor Axelsen in his track in the semis (probably a close contest considering the devastating form VA was in, with the benefit of hindsight), and, who knows, it wouldn't be the least bit surprising that he emerged as the last man standing on the winner's podium to wear the gold medal around his neck.

    Well, "it's all pure speculation", you might shoot back at me; no doubt, but I'm ready to wager I'd be right on the money, at the very least 80% sure.
     
    #371 Justin L, Sep 1, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  12. mohans

    mohans Regular Member

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    Gotcha

    If CHN wins, player had the motivation
    If CHN loses, player didn’t have the motivation

    All we say is It would have been nice- had HBJ fought as well as you’re doing it in her thread here


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  13. Baddie lover

    Baddie lover Regular Member

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    Ahmmmm, LD reached final with knee injury. Man, he reached final with it. Point is you can't bring xyz factor that LD is not super dan or CL is not in his 2014-16 dorm everytime they lose. Should I say, CYF was lucky to win the gold as she didn't face Spanish Bull Carolina Marin ?? Did any of the BC posters disregard CYF win over TTY ? No.

    I don't want to be personal. But I've seen many of your posts, whenever the players you support loses, you will belittle (passive/softcore approach) the Victor. Be it Momota, be it KS, be it PVS, be it LCW. In 2016, when LD lost to LCW, you commented LCW was lucky to win it as Lin Dan was not in Super Dan mode. Luck or not, it's a statement totally disregarding the result and making his win feel in a bad taste.

    Going by your logic, I would say it's Sindhu who would have been less motivated as she won OG silver and who would like to win a bronze when you aimed for Gold, right?
     
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  14. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    HBJ is listed along with CYF and WZY as the core players for Paris'24. She will be 27 at that time and theoretically at the peak of her career.

    HBJ lost tons of weight lately. She showed better mobility and endurance at Tokyo'20 but not much more sting on her attack. Her biggest problem remains the persistent casual mistakes. Let's see if she can complete her transformation in time for Paris'24.
     
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  15. Baddyforall

    Baddyforall Regular Member

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    Are you so desperate to give some uneven comparison (Comparing KM to He Bingjiao or Men's singles to Women's Singles).?

    First of all, HKH is not Sindhu. I don't even know who is HKH. For god's sake, Sindhu is current World Champion.

    Kento Momota , with 2 World championships title even mentioned that the opponent played well . Is she even be compared to Kento Momota? Lol.

    If she is asked in an interview, she will accept the truth that she lost to a better player than giving some non-sense excuses for her loss. Period.

    In what basis, you started to use Kento Momota's interview to He bingjiao's loss. I am still confused. Please provide link to the interview of He bingjiao after this Olympics where she said that she lost due to 'Lack of Motivation' . Then we can talk. Otherwise, useless to talk about a player's loss here.
     
    #375 Baddyforall, Sep 1, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  16. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    He Bingjiao's body language told me she wasn't as hungry as Sindhu for the bronze, compared with how she played Nozomi or even Chen Yufei.

    I never once claimed she'd beat Sindhu if motivated enough, only implying that it'd be more fiercely fought, the outcome uncertain. It's you and your ilk who read much more into it. Apparently, Sindhu's bronze meant a lot more to you than to HBJ and me.;)
     
  17. mohans

    mohans Regular Member

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    Of course, it had a whispering conversation with *you*


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  18. mohans

    mohans Regular Member

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    Because neither of you won it or for a moment played like wining it


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  19. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Read carefully - "As for KS, didn't he beat a knee-injured LD in that 2014 China Open?" Did I say LD injured himself in the final or in the tournament? As we know, LD sustained that knee injury after winning the Asian Games gold while playing soccer with his friends, and I supposed it got worse as the China Open tournament wore off in the final. Hey, so many players had beaten LD in 2015, including your other IND players, eg Prannoy. So?

    And, just for the sake of arguments, you went on to brand me as someone who often belittled LD's opponents' victory over him - really, that's how you read my posts? Are you sure you didn't misread or took my remarks out of context? For example, when I said LD is no longer the Super Dan that he once was in that Rio'16 match with LCW, how many would have disagreed with me, esp as it's well-known LD since he came back from a year's hiatus to play the 2013 WC, he had already started to transition into a different kind of player, more of a rallying stroke player, much less attacking but more passive in playing style; hence no longer Super Dan as we all know it, a moniker or epithet given by Peter Gade of him. You mean, you didn't know all that about LD?

    And your final question of logic...errr..what's that, I can't make head or tail of it ?! Perhaps, you're out of my depth.:po_O.

    "Should I say, CYF was lucky to win the gold as she didn't face Spanish Bull Carolina Marin ??" - how do you know it's not the other way around, the Spanish Bull was lucky she didn't participate in the Tokyo Olympics? Logical to you? Or, you're just being emotional?

    Ok, that's enough for me. Obviously, this conversation or quarrel is meaningless, talk about not being personal. Oh, spare me the agony. TQ.
     
  20. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Are you exchanging views with me or trolling me? What's your beef?

    Yes, I was disappointed with HBJ's attitude in that bronze medal match as I thought she could do better especially in view of how she payed Nozomi earlier. Never once did I begrudge Sindhu's victory - that's a different matter, which you keep harping on. In other words, my problem is with HBJ, not Sindhu.

    Time to move on. What's done is done. Let's see what the future has in store for us.
     

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