what happens if somebody serves before the opponent is ready?

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by ralphz, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    what happens if somebody serves before the opponent is ready?

    i've no doubt that almost never happens in a tournament or serious match. but i'm curious..

    i've heard it's a foul, but what would that even imply.. do they redo it.. does the side of the guy that wasn't ready win the point and serve next? do they redo the rally same point and he serves again? in which case is the foul like a yellow card? what are the implications of the foul and what happens to the game?

    thanks
     
  2. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    From the Laws of Badminton:
    The umpire will call Play a let and the score remains unchanged. For the first or second time in a match, that's it. If a pattern develops, the umpire will talk to the players.

    If the receiver has a pattern of not being ready, the umpire will likely tell them to hurry (the vocabulary mentions Get readier quicker).
    If the server served intentionally while the receiver was not ready, the umpire can also tell the server Don’t serve before the receiver is ready.

    If the receiver is delaying the game (which is common) or the server is constantly serving although the receiver is not ready (which is rare), the umpire will also threaten and eventually show cards for delay of game.
     
    mater, ralphz, stradrider and 2 others like this.
  3. psyclops

    psyclops Regular Member

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    You heard, Wrong!


    Cf:


    There is context to this incident, at scoreline of 13-12. Look at it.

    [Now look at the same incident. It would appear that the English pair is forcing a decision on the umpire. This is a higher level of gamesmanship, that, at least in my book, the umpire should be familiar with.

    When I first saw the incident at 13-12, I knew who was going to be the winning team.
    {I give you the answer: It was the English.}
     
  4. psyclops

    psyclops Regular Member

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    Ralphy:
    ralphz:
    these sort of situations have been happening after time began - I mean, when sporting contests were held with an arbitrator (as in players, their opponents, and coaches, and an umpire (or referee)).

    So to be absolutely clear, this is not a situation of a foul -- it is either, legal, or illegal, action. If latter, then, there are consequences, penalties, mostly as per umpire perception (which as you may know is based on experience and/or training).

    You doubt it never happens. Good on you Matey for being so optimistic.

    This exact same situation happened at the recently concluded XD SF.

    Look at the situation at:


    Then look at what happened earlier, at scoreline of 13-12, first game.
     
  5. psyclops

    psyclops Regular Member

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    Ja, ja, all this is good and fine/ Only if the umpire recognises these sort of situations. Pattern recognition is a fundamental aspect of umpire preparation - the same way that the first responders, end the ER-personnel, prepare.

    You mention, the receiver has a pattern of not being ready. What is this? Two points? Three points? When does it make a pattern? Three data points for me is adequate to draw a trend-line. How many for you?

    Umpire never threatens with cards. Cards are disciplinary devices to help control game-matchflow and player behaviour, they are in my book at least.

    ...
    If the receiver has a pattern of not being ready, the umpire will likely tell them to hurry (the vocabulary mentions Get readier quicker).
    If the server served intentionally while the receiver was not ready, the umpire can also tell the server Don’t serve before the receiver is ready.
    ...

    This same exact situation happened at the XDSF (INA-ENG) at the AE2020.

    The outcome was that the INA team was awarded a yellow card.

    I will tell you, what Banham (llok him up), should have told that umpire - smile to the INA male player, nod, and let him serve, again. This would have been acceptable to all players on court.

    Why? I hear you ask.

    The player who served is doing nothing wrong. He, is effect, doing exactly, what you told him. He followed your instructions.

    The player in White (female, English team) was setting the situation up. This happened at scoreline of 13-12. She was practically never ready as soon as she took ready position. She adjusted, while the opponent was waiting for her to get ready.

    See the video clip again to figure this out.
     
  6. whatsthecallUmp

    whatsthecallUmp Regular Member

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    This is not a juniors tournament, is it?

    My experience is that this situation is mostly juniors competitions. This is also where most new umpires do not apply the law properly, with the result that the junior matches finish way sooner, than they should. How much sooner than they should? At least half a second too early at each rally start, I would say. For the number of rallies played in those matches, it would add, probably at most, 40 seconds.

    As an umpire, on these junior matches, when I let the rally start without the receiver being ready, is not appropriate. The simple reason is - not applying the law properly. What is proper application of the law? The server must serve when the receiver is ready. The receiver must be ready when the server is. Anything in between these two is against the law.

    How many umpires you know, or have seen, apply the law?


    Also know, there is no foul - it is either a legal play, or not. If not legal, then the law specifies the consequence, which is almost always, a fault.

    How many umpires enforce the law as written? [Hint: None. Banham, have you noted this?]
    Who, if at all, benefits, from a "let" played? [Hint: the offender]
     
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  7. LetsPlay42

    LetsPlay42 New Member

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    It is expected in badminton that there is a level of respect between the opponents. This means that if the server serves before the receiver is ready a 'let' is played where the point is replayed.

    Watch from 3.27 mins to 04:03 mins where I cover lets and the serving scenario this post is covering:

     
  8. psyclops

    psyclops Regular Member

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    The enactments efforts of on-court situations are commendable, looks like a lot of choreography went into clarification attempt.

    However, the commentary about ... cannot strike, cannot hit shuttle, cannot invade ... is moot.
    Players will and have done so, all of these and many other things.
    The laws (or the rules of competition) are there to help deliver the result, the outcome, of those actions.

    In other words, think about it this way -- What do you mean player cannot do this, player already did.

    Therefore, so and such action by player results in loss of rally, resulting in the award of point to opponent, or
    when unsporting conduct, award of yellow or red card.
     
  9. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    Hehe, there is gamesmanship on both sides here, the difference being the English cracked first and complained to the umpire.

    Jordan has quite an odd preparation routine, he looks like he's ready to serve so the opponents settle into their ready position, then he stands up straight, takes a breath and stares at his opponent before actually serving. It's a weird rhythm and I think a lot of opponents get knocked off balance by it.

    From a rules perspective it is quite a slow routine, but from a receiving perspective it's pretty consistent so once you've seen it a couple of times you know what to expect...although he sometimes rushes it on a flick, presumably to gain an advantage, some would call it "mixing up the pace" ;-)
     

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