The way I string badminton racket... Simplified Haribito???

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by stradrider, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Yes, they do interact and affect each other - but still only in the areas between their contact points. I think we can agree that the string parts on the outside of the racket do not move or stretch during a stroke, right? So bottom line, it shouldn't matter at in which ways the string is running from one whole to the next. So again, the difference in feel will be significantly higher if someone adds 10% pre-stretch compared to varying only the pattern.

    Just ask yourself the question: The main factor during the "settling" period is the string elasticity. And that again isn't influenced by the pattern. Looking at the tension loss coming from the knot - how much are we talking about here? Let's say that the clamp drawback after doing a proper knot is somewhere around 3-5 mm. Let these 5 mm creep in to the outer 5 strings... that's 1 mm per string, including the parts that are outside of the racket. That is nothing compared to the string elasticity. And besides, it will be the same 5 strings that are affected with both Haribito variants, since both are finishing the last strings bottom up towards the top knot. So why should one feel uneven and the other isn't? Why should a string care if it was strung top down or bottom up if the effective tension is the same?

    I know that there are also people who can apparently hear a difference between a copper cable and "gold" cables. I can't. And I'm glad about that. I'm convinced that a lot of these "but this pattern plays better than the other" claims are either comparing string jobs done by different stringers or contain a lot of make believe voodoo.

    In terms of racket safety, there surely are differences between several patterns if you look at the stress distribution throughout the job. But in terms of feel and playability if all parameters, clamping process and stringer is the same? I doubt it. Problem is that there is no way to actually rate playability and feel by neutral measurements, so you won't be able to rule out the huge factor of human perception there.
     
  2. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    I don't see how that can be true... The interaction with the areas outside the frame is diminished due to the friction at the grommets, but there have to be at least some movement outside the frame during the stroke as well... Anyways, the way you framed your arguments with the pre-stretch sounds that you don't think there any effect of the pattern on the feel? That cannot be right, as anybody tried different patterns would tell you otherwise...
    I think the main problem that we don't find understanding is the phenomenon that I am trying to describe, that I think is right.... but I can also be wrong.... :rolleyes:... It is extremely hard to explain what I "see", but let me try this analogy...

    Imagine an acrobat on a rope. If he stands in the middle of the whole length of the rope, the displacement will be much larger in the middle of the rope, compared to if he was staying just near the end of it. Do you agree with that?

    I think the same is happening with the string in the racket. The string "gives in" in the middle more under constant stress (and even more under exerted stress while playing) and therefore slightly, with time, the string creeping towards the center, creating slightly lower tension in the strings that are in the middle...

    The reverse effect happening to the part of the string that is closer to the knot. The length, lost from the creeping towards the center, harder to recover from the other side, because it is closer to the knot at the end of the string because it cannot stretch as mach at the end. That is why I think it remains under a little bit more tension than string areas at the center of the whole string...

    Do you see what I mean? Though if you don't believe there is any movement outside the grommets at all than probably the whole discussion is a dead end...
     
    #22 stradrider, Jun 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  3. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    That would be an interesting experiment. Make some marks on the outside parts of the string and on the frame and see if there is any movement over lifetime.
    During a stroke, I don’t think there is any movement at all. When the shuttle sinks into the string bed, the tension difference on two neighbouring strings will be minimal since both will see the load coming from the shuttle - and hence there won’t be much movement happening between them.
    Also, if you look at the sweet spot mains and crosses, there is basically no difference between all common patterns in the way how they are „routed“. They always go from one hole to the next - there is no hole skipping or anything fancy happening.

    In my opinion, you are overthinking and overrating the importance of the pattern in terms of playability. I have done these comparisons in the beginning and literally did feel zero difference. There was a lot more difference when I added 1 or 2 lbs on the crosses or went with square tensions.
    But as always, stringing is a bit of an art that brings out various styles and flavours depending on the artist. So if you feel that your jobs are exactly how you want them to be with your pattern, then that’s the only argument you’ll need.

    Oh, and the acrobat: Yes, he sinks in the most when he’s in the milde between both fix points. But: He will sink in the same if the rope is tied to the side wall, the roof or on the ground after it’s passed the fix points. Or if the distance between fix points and the final fixture (the knot so to speak) is 5 meters or just a couple of inches. S as long as there is no movement between the „active“ rope and the part outside the fix point - which brings us back to your final question.
     
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  4. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    That's a great idea of an experiment! I will surely do it, only it would take some time to get the result (and hopefully the ink would not wear with time...).

    I would need to think more about the problem and if there is a way to test my hypothesis. I fully admit that as of now I cannot find a way to explain it or even think of a good testing other than what you suggested to mark the strings (but creeping was only one hypothesis to explain my observation). Anyways it starts looking to me less convincing than what I thought before and you might likely to be right. Perhaps we could get back to it some time later if I find a useful way to look at the problem... :). It's been an interesting discussion!:cool:
     
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  5. vkwok

    vkwok Regular Member

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    I have done a little experiment to test if the ‘loss tension’ cause by string movement ,not a decent one I just put it for one day(but usually tension start drop few hours later off machine, especially in that high tension). It’s interesting tho


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  6. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    What is there to see? The only thing I can spot is that apparently the camera position is moving slightly closer to the racket over time. But nothing seems to be happening to the strings or the frame.
     
  7. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    I cannot see any string movement as well. Is it what you are showing us?
     
  8. vkwok

    vkwok Regular Member

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    Yes I was expecting the printings will at least move a bit in this time lapse, but it’s not moving at all. I did tried it on 28lbs 66um too still nothing moved.


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  9. chanman87

    chanman87 Regular Member

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    i use the same string pattern but double pull my last main and first crosses
    i find that its less stress on the edge of the racket especially at tensions above 26lbs
     

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