Position of wrist in clear shots

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by chevy75, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. chevy75

    chevy75 Regular Member

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    Hey guys,

    I've been working on improving my clear shot and I have a question about the position of the wrist. Is there any cocking/uncocking of the wrist during the clear stroke? Or is the wrist always in neutral position? (neutral position as in knuckles completely parallel to the wrist bone) not sure if Im explaining well enough...but basically neutral meaning no bending forwards or backwards at the wrist.
     
  2. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Good question, might also help your question if you add that you know about arm rotation and about power from there, you know that the wrist shouldn't bend forwards past neutral, and that any wrist movement should be kind of 'natural'.

    And so the question mark is should it bend back and if so, how much and when. I hope you get some good answers! Bear in mind though that a lot of people aren't really that conscious of these things to say.

    I think maybe there could be a partial backwards motion of the wrist that comes from all the motion going on, and maybe it shouldn't really be fully back because then tension could potentially be lost there. On contact it's neutral.
     
  3. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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  4. chevy75

    chevy75 Regular Member

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    ahh ok...thanks LenaicM for the link. I think I kinda get it now..I've noticed from the video that although there isn't any forward/backward movement of the wrist during the stroke, the wrist is already at a slight angle to the forearm in the preparation phase...more than mine is at the moment. I'll try it out when i get a chance to play again.

    I'm having trouble getting enough power into my clear shots and hence was wondering if it had anything to do with the position of my wrist. I seem to be taking the shot in the correct position with hip rotation so cant figure out why I'm not getting enough speed and depth on the shuttle. Occasionally I'd hit a perfectly deep and crisp clear to the baseline pretty effortlessly but can't figure out what I did right to do that. At the moment most of my clears require almost all of my energy to get the shuttle to the base.
     
  5. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    The lack of power is unlikely related to anything in your question, but your problem is likely that you did the famous error of tensing up too much too early, thus breaking the kinetic chain. When you did it "effortlessly", you kept loose only squeezing fingers at the end. I think fighters - boxers and kickboxers, do something like staying loose as well, so as to not lose power.

    If you read up about doing clears and power in clears, and smashes, you'll see/hear that mentioned again and again. Hence the word "effortless".
     
    #5 ralphz, Jun 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  6. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    It's a combination of positioning and proper kinetic chain movements (from head to toe literally). That's already great you realized it's all about technique and not rackets or such. There are plenty of videos from that coach or others about proper clearing or smash technique. Be sure to spend some time watching it because sometimes it's not one thing that hinder your full capacity but a combination of little things.

    A quick recap:
    - position yourself behind the shuttle and be sure to contact it high.
    - early positioned, you'll have the necessary time to properly "arm" your stroke (check videos on the proper form to adopt) and be sure to keep a relaxed grip.
    - pronation is key
     
  7. chevy75

    chevy75 Regular Member

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    Funnily enough I'm able to hit better clears when I'm under pressure taking it late and having to bend over to my left and taking it round my head (I'm a right hander). I really wonder why that is...
     
  8. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Without video, hard to tell. If you want to push it further, check your stroke form with a coach or post a video of you here. I'm sure that will help you to spot what's to change.
     
  9. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    That's a good video about how to use the forearm, and is very important when somebody doesn't know that. (but let's say somebody knows that), And let's say they know the wrist shouldn't bend forwards

    That video doesn't address an interesting and more difficult question, rarely addressed, of whether the wrist remains neutral the whole time or whether the wrist goes back a bit , and how much and when. (and this is all of course 'natural', most people aren't really conscious of it and wouldn't know)
     
    #9 ralphz, Jun 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
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  10. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    I honestly don't have enough knowledge to discuss this very specific (and interesting) point any further. I allowed myself to answer OP and post that video because I thought it was important and probably necessary given we are discussing a basic stroke such as the clear.

    But that point your raised, it's out of my level of knowledge or level of play.
     
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  11. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    I'm glad you at least recognise and appreciate and understand that question ;-)
     
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  12. chevy75

    chevy75 Regular Member

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    Ralphz...am sure among the professionals there'll be varying degrees of how much the wrist goes back..am curious to know how much of an effect this has on the stroke and if its something i should work on. I guess the only way to know is to try it out myself and see...I find that correcting my technique as an adult requires a lot of analyzing and consciously trying to execute it. When I first learnt badminton as a kid everything seemed to happen naturally. Pity i didnt have a chance to follow it through as a kid...
     
  13. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    I spent a few minutes watching slow-mo videos of the pros and it appears there is some wrist movement (and I don't mean pronation ok) and it seems it would help adjusting the angle of the impact at the shuttle. That's a wild statement and I focused on the impact, not the racket arm preparation, because I have no knowledge or datas to back that idea up but the pronation movement of the whole forearm might lack precision and is mostly here to generates power right? may be the adjustment of the wrist helps (naturally it is without really thinking about it when playing and very subtly otherwise it hinders the efficiency of the pronation) to adjust more precisely the angle of the impact and direction of the shuttle. If I swing my arm with a racket executing a solid pronation, I would say it mostly focuses on power but if I adjust my wrist back or forth (very lightly otherwise I find it hinders pronation execution) the moment of supposed impact, may be it helps to adjust the steepness, angle and direction of the shuttle? Well that's a wild assumption..
    o_O:)

    EDIT: or is it the role of the fingers rather than the wrist to help directing more precisely the shuttle?

     
    #13 LenaicM, Jun 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  14. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Double post.
     
  15. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    If you get a magnificent video camera that picks up that during the stroke and if a few here converge on the view that you're getting it wrong then yes you could work on it, or if you have a coach that spots an issue with it, then you could work on it Otherwise, no.

    I don't know for sure, maybe somebody can answer. But you aren't that curious about any particular thing. People that are really curious, will ask their question, mean it, and not allow for any diversion at all until perhaps it is sufficiently addressed! You're interested in whether it should go back, but then prior to getting a good answer or set of answers on that, then you were interested in getting more power. Then you're interested in the effects of it going back. And when you asked about the wrist and were shown something about the forearm you said you "kinda get it". All in the same thread. So if you do get an answer you'd be very lucky! And it's a difficult question that really could do with input from a variety of people.

    I'd guess that maybe putting it all the way back or letting it go all the way back would cause too much lack of tension in the muscles and less control of the racket face.. and letting it naturally go a little bit back during the external rotation and supination part of the movement is perhaps right and then of course to neutral in the internal rotation and pronation part. But there may be cases where the wrist doesn't go back or doesn't need to and then would be fine and perhaps even right not to. Maybe it going a bit back(when it naturally does so), allows for the looseness required. But i'm no expert.
     
    #15 ralphz, Jun 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  16. Obito

    Obito Regular Member

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    In addition, Try not to think of your wrist positioning, but focusing on using your fingers. What does using of fingers mean? It means the time you are about to hit the shuttle. You grip the handle "explosively". The harder you could suddenly "grip" the racket, the stonger the speed of the shuttle going to be. That why people say to have loose grip then tighten it up. I usually try to focus on tighten my ring and pinky fingers as hard as I could since these two are the weakest. If you could tighten those two strong enough, you will be able to generate a decent amount of power.
     
  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Actually it's even better if you can tighten all 4 fingers simultaneously and explosively to mash the handle against your palm. Like this...



    Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk
     
  18. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    I learnt it as the bottom 3 , that makes sense to me. Not heard of 2 or 4! The bottom 3 have the leverage. How are you meant to get any leverage from the index finger? It's not low, and it is hardly wrapped around.

    The index finger is perhaps more of a support. And looking at mine, and my fingers aren't that long but aren't short either. My index finger barely if at all makes it over any of that wide bevel to even try to pull it in.. I think maybe thumb and index finger are more to hold the racket in place. A support.

    And as you say, pulling it against the palm

    And do you have a view on his actual question of wrist position how far back and when? Or not back at all? (Accepting and putting aside discussion of forearm pronation or any rotation but talking actual real wrist movement and wrist position, and granting that the wrist doesnt go past neutral , and granting that forearm pronation and fingers and preparation and other things are more important)
     
    #18 ralphz, Jun 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020

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