Smash technique - beginner (elbow position)

The difference is relatively small. One has the elbow a little higher, the other a little lower. But it makes no sense to keep the elbow very low and very high.

Then it also depends on small things. One has a smaller/faster backswing, the other might have more power.

Have a look at the Axelsen video from 3.27min. This is similar to Wadenka. Wadenka just explains better and Axelsen exaggerates a bit.

 

Sometimes when you put two together you get closer to the truth..

Well spotted that in Viktor's demonstration he keeps his elbow up at the start, but in practise it starts low, though comes high and then elbow up as the next step. And in practise Viktor does it similar to Wadenka..

Something I notice in Wadenka's demonstration though, that seems strange...

I notice that Wadenka's demonstration he explicitly says about the elbow coming forward and up(i.e. not just up), and he shows his elbow coming past his torso as it rises and maybe even quite far in front, and one might think based on his demonstration, that it's as if it rises diagonally up and forwards. and I have seen similar descriptions on this forum., of elbow rising forward and up.. And in his description the text in that screenshot "Elbow up and forward".



But actually..


When Tobias does the shot, when he does the shot in practise / with a shuttle, (not demonstrating/talking through it), he doesn't bring the elbow that forwards.

He brings it up, and maybe if it does go forwards it's only bit and what is necessary to raise it up. But even not really past his torso(or if past it then barely).



And I think that makes sense, since if one brings the elbow forwards and up in practise, then too much of the action could come from the arm extending at the elbow. Keeping the elbow up but not forwards(so not bringing it forward prematurely), ensures more of a swing.

So looking at them actually doing the overhead, the elbow is coming up rather than up and forward.

There has been some discussion in the past about the "scratch your back" cue that used to be used. I think that cue correlates with the descriptions of elbow coming up and forwards. (which would infact bring the racket closer to the back). which also indicates to me that it shouldn't be up and forwards, but just up.

For the reaching up part of the hit, is Wadenka bringing his elbow further forwards, in the demonstration than he does when actually hitting it?

It seems maybe so to me, though i'm no expert.

 

I have a badminton net set up in a low ceiling living room in my apartment. I can't stand up and hit a smash without hitting the ceiling. Question is- to improve technique, if other options are unavailable (e.g. going to badminton court), can I kneel to practice smash without any negative effect when I stand? I would be kneeling anywhere from net to just past the service line. Kneeling would provide full vertical reach without hitting the ceiling. I do have a feeder.

Thanks in advance.

 

You can but it's probably bad for learning the wrong kinetics. Ie you can't properly incorporate trunk rotation and throwing the shoulder forward if you're sitting or kneeling.

Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk

 

Would not recommend, smash is built bottom up. If you have no other option I would rather do it without a racket standing.

 

Very little bit of weight 1-2kg would be good to replace racket. If you dont have one, just find an unused plastic bottle & fill it with sand or something.

 

Hey, this reminds me your post with Anna Rice videos about elbow position.

I see most pros smash like Tobias on your second Screenshot :

I tried this but I've found out that the elbow to ear from Anna Rice works better for me. Even if in your post you show that she doesn't really do what she explains when she actually performs the shot. I get more speed and more power when my elbow points to the ceiling like on the following pictures than when I try to smash with raising my elbow diagonally like in the YouTube wideo I posted above.

So I Don't know if it's wrong or right. I mean, I get better results but is it bad on the long term ?

 

Valid question but I wouldn't recommend the method as taught by Anna. By having the elbow pointing straight up you are negating the internal rotation of the shoulder which is used to load the swing pronation.

I've played a lot of volleyball and the elbow to the roof is used there, but a volleyball swing is more focused on the wrist snap as opposed to the pronation as well as having the highest point of contact, which is not the same when you are utilizing a racket.

If it's unclear I'll try to put together a video for you

 

The screenshot of him actually playing the shot, his elbow is not pointing very far forwards. Rather than his dodgy demonstration with his elbow pointing very far forwards.

Not just most pros but I don't think any pros or county players or decent club players, would play it how he demonstrates it.

You might feel like you are pointing it as up as anna rice#s demonstration, but are you really? Have you seem yourself in video?

Consider this and it's just something to think about.. I don't know if this is correct, and maybe you have some thoughts on it..

If the elbow is pointing as far up as anna rice , then when the arm extends it'd be very much up over your head. Shuttle not really in front of you. Wouldn't you get more power if the shuttle was a bit more in front of you?

It's good to be able to do wide forehand and forehands that are very directly over your head not wide.. And ones in between..

Maybe you are doing the wider ones wrongly / the ones that aren't in the extreme directly over the head position, wrongly.

The elbow "naturally" moves moves in a little arc motion when the upper arm rotates in external rotation.

When you speak of moving the elbow diagonally it sounds like you might be doing it wrongly like wodenka's dodgy demonstration. It is possible to hit a good shot the way anna rice has her elbow in her demonstration, and not everybody would have the flexibility that anna shows there and ability to be relaxed doing that, but wodenka's demonstration seems more problematic to me..

You can raise the elbow at different widths, and try the upper arm rotation and I suppose see the extent that the elbow reorients/moves and in part comes forwards. .. and maybe not coming forwards even at all at the extrene position that anna demos her elbow at.

 

I was more talking about his elbow coming "diagonally" like on the video I posted.
In comparison to what Anna Rice suggests (elbow coming up vertically), his elbow is doing Something like a 45° angle, maybe less. It's what I've noticed when I Watch pros smashing in slow motion, their elbow is coming this way.

Well, I've been doing this in front of the mirror before trying on the court and in front of the mirror, yeah, it's like what she does. On the court, I'm pretty sure it's not that up but far closer to what she does that what Tobias does.
Actually, I hit the Shuttle in front of me. On a clock maybe on "11" or just between "11" and "12". I Don't stop my elbow pointing up towards the ceiling, it's more like a step of the trajectory. I would say the elbow comes further than my nose when I end the motion.
I mean, I'm thinking about these Swords fight where you can see they hold a sword with two hands, arming from behind, raising the elbows up above the head and then forward.
Maybe I didn't explain it correctly at first whether it's vertical or in diagonal, I didn't mean like the final step for the elbow, it keeps going forwards.

I think this. I feel like I'm using raw arm power than generating power through a good movement.

Well, I haven't watched his video, just the picture on your post and it felt like what pros do. What I'm refering by "diagonally" is what people do on this following video. Of course, their elbow doesn't end up on the side as it keeps going forward, it's just a step in the chain. But what I tried to say is that they seem to throw their elbow in front and up but towards the side compared to Anna Rice who advises to throw it in front and up but vertically.

 

yup, i at times do record myself playing and notice I do not extend my elbow high enough
a lot of times looks like 90degrees only