Pronation or not?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by strongline, May 8, 2020.

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  1. strongline

    strongline Regular Member

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    I am sure there were tons posts about pronation already, but I like to discuss it from a different angle that might not have been raised yet. So I found it difficult to incorporate pronation in my clears or smashes, either I end up with slicing, or hurting my shoulder, to the point I am thinking to give up pronation. There are actually videos/couches talking about abandoning pronation completely in favor of just focusing on hold the racket steady and hit it square from beginning to end. Advantage of not using pronation: 1) quicker swing time/response time; 2) better whipping effect. Thoughts?
     
  2. thyrif

    thyrif Regular Member

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    This is a really good one by Tobias Wadenka. And spoiler: yes you always pronate. If something is going wrong, your grip or other part of your technique might be hindering you. Tobias explains all the parts very well in this video. Good luck!

     
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  3. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    I doubt some "coaches" suggest to abandon pronation or they are simply not coaches. The goal of a coach is to teach proper technique not to use any alternative method to compensate for a lack of technique.

    And I'm afraid it won't give you any advantages such as the ones you mentioned. The goal of using pronation on clears and smashes is to clear back to back effortlessly and easily or smash with power without forcing with your shoulder. We dont need a quick response time for those strokes except for sticky smashes yet they still use pronation. A better whipping effect without pronation? Definitely not. Let's say it, you won't be able to play badminton without proper pronation technique.

    Lastly if it hurts your shoulder it's because you don't use pronation properly, you have to use proper pronation technique not to hurt your shoulder and if you use the technique you mentioned to compensate you will definitely force with your shoulder wnd elbow ending up with tennis elbow injuries or worst, shoulder injuries.

    I suggest to get some coaching time with a real coach that doesn't suggest abandoning pronation and I'm sure you will get it properly shortly. Good luck :).
     
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  4. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    If you're hitting forehands without pronation then either your grip is wrong (panhandle) or you've already pronated your arm and you aren't leading with your elbow. (it's really uncomfortable to do the latter AND try to lead with your elbow - I just tried it!)

    There's no other way for the racquet head to be 'square' at impact.

    Don't overthink pronation, if your swing is roughly correct you'll do it naturally, it's just how your arm is built :)

    Just before you start to swing forward drop the racquet head behind your back (kind of between your shoulder blades) then begin to swing forward starting by bringing your elbow forward first - you should see it appear out the corner of your eye!

    Do it slowly, what happens to your forearm as you begin to extend your elbow? ;-)
     
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  5. Budi

    Budi Regular Member

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    Technique is developed for good reason & as its implemented in many coaching so it definitely usefull. So no reason to not learning it with reason it harm you. If it harm you then you didnt do it the right way unless ofcourse you had some abnormal issue on you body which i doubt that the case.
    If you lack of power & you decide to master your speed/control, its fine if you run away from power. Its part of your style or tactics to make best of your trait. But i will definitely disagree if you run away from the correct basic technique.
     
  6. strongline

    strongline Regular Member

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    Thank you all for your input and let me reply you all in one post. I like to clarify that I am pretty sure my grip is correct (or at least mostly). I over-stated that I don't use pronation at all, but it is more a gradual pronation happening from beginning of swing until hitting, VS. what most tutorial show the pronation happens only a short moment right before hitting birdie. To describing in another way, my pronation is not as drastic, less turning distance, not giving me much bursting power (or at least I feel), no within a relative short time etc. I just can't do the full, speed pronation at last moment.

    As for coaches that suggest focusing more on whipping than pronation, I will try to find a few links and post. I think Coach Lee Jae Bok is one of them.
     
  7. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    Pronation IS part of the whipping action, each part of your arm plays a part as the energy travels along it like er, well, a whip!

    If one link in the chain doesn't play its part you lose the whipping action and thus lose power.

    I do not see that whipping and pronation are mutually exclusive choices.

    LJB advises people not to be obsessed with pronation, and he's right.
     
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  8. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    May be he was talking about other strokes than clears and smashes? I mean even for backhands you have to perform a supination movement to get the shuttle deep there, otherwise you will never reach more than half court. I don't see any coaches advising "abandoning pronation completely" for any back court strokes.
     
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  9. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    I think LJB makes his views pretty clear here:

     
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  10. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    I get the confusion of some viewers though, he is making things complicated in the way he talk too from times to times with a lot of negation and counter argument to explain his point. He takes 15 minutes to say what should take 1 minute using only straight and clear sentences followed by a clear illustration in action by some active players.

    I love watching his videos though, feels like discussing with an old friend who would be as nerdy as we are about badminton.
     
  11. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    Yeah, he does drag it out - I think he worries that he hasn't been clear so labours the point quite a bit.

    Funny because in person he was very to the point - "Look shuttle, hit shuttle" and of course "FINGER POWER!"
     
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  12. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    You had him as a coach?! :eek::cool:
     
  13. thyrif

    thyrif Regular Member

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    Yeah thats why I linked Tobias' video instead, quick and very clear. It even helps me as a coach to explain better to my players.
     
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  14. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    Heh, only a little, when he was working for Badminton England he did a few sessions for County Juniors, I was one of the lucky ones :)

    It was hard work, very drill-focussed, quite robotic.
     
    #14 RichF, May 8, 2020
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
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  15. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    I linked to LJB as the OP suggested that LJB was one of the people abandoning pronation.

    I'm curious as to what "whipping" actually is?!
     
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  16. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    His videos are great and so well demonstrated! Imo, some of the best. May be with Badminton Famly too.
     
  17. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

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    Wow impressive! Im sure it had nothing to do with luck if you were selected for those sessions. Amazing to know some users on here got such solid level of play and such cool experiences. :)
     
  18. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    It was for coaches too so they could pick up tips - maybe I was there so he could demonstrate how to coach a hopeless case...or maybe my coaches thought I really needed the extra help!
     
  19. FeatherDance

    FeatherDance Regular Member

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    I've always thought that pronation was not a deliberate thing but a by product of proper grip and swing movement. Say, when clearing a shuttle, during the moment just before impact when you straighten your arm, the forearm grip forces you to pronate because the racket face is not completely front-facing (unlike a panhandle grip). So if you are having problems pronating, the issue might stem from something else fundamental in grip and movement. Before I knew what was pronation, I was pronating, because of the way I was taught gripping and how to swing a racket. None of my coaches have ever mentioned pronation either as people were doing it if they got the swings and grip right. It's not something like the split step, where there is nothing to "force" it
     
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  20. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    As someone who has spent countless hours trying to do pronation by trial and error , this post above is very accurate,That is, there doesn’t seem to be a need to deliberately pronate at least not initially ....
    Also when I spoke to the few members of my club who were trained professionally they were never taught the concept of pronation, yet they pronate properly !
    good post !
     
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