The change in men’s doubles

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Cheung, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,818
    Likes Received:
    4,791
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Anybody following BWF channel total recall?

    Its great they put up the 1983 and 1985 men’s doubles finals. In those two short years, the men’s doubles game totally changed
     
    LenaicM likes this.
  2. LenaicM

    LenaicM Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,280
    Likes Received:
    1,035
    Location:
    Europe
    I did. I enjoy vintage matchss quite a lot. It helps me catch up with badminton history/culture.

    Is this change due to a breakthrough in racket technology? A different approach towards the sport (physical training or new tactics) or something else?
     
  3. viver

    viver Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Koreans new approach to the game. Furthering the 3-strokes fundamentals and much improved defence and counter-attack.
     
    swsh, LenaicM and Cheung like this.
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,818
    Likes Received:
    4,791
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    It took nearly six years for Indonesian men's doubles to catch up.
     
  5. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,818
    Likes Received:
    4,791
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    @LenaicM

    equipment wise probably carbon graphite shafts were more popular though still traditional T joint design

    Park and Kim were using the old carbonex 9 2U. It had a very sturdy metal frame. 1985 was the first year a fully integrated T piece Carbon graphite racquet was released. I don’t think China team had started using it yet.

    yonex BG 65 had been released around that time, maybe a year earlier. I know Park used to ask for stringing tensions at 30lbs. He was the first player to ask for such high tensions. Not sure exactly what year he started asking for those tensions but it must have been after BG65 has been released. None of the other strings at the time were as robust as BG65. Catgut string was still available those days.

    However, exactly as @viver describes, there was a big change in the tactics and as we see in the video fitness and speed. Mid court pushes after serve to try and get the lifts plus counter attacks and very fast into the net positions.
     
    necrohiero and LenaicM like this.
  6. viver

    viver Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    The Korean players introduced new technical aspects into the game, mostly in the doubles area.
    First was the serve. After banning the spinning serve in 1982 (if not mistaken about the date), the Koreans introduced the "tumbling serve" which made it hard to play a good "second stroke". The Koreans also improved the attack with different variations, but the bigger improvement was the defence area. One of the strategies in badminton is to make your opponent lift the shuttle in order to allow you to attack, the Koreans were excellent at returning the smashes "flat" and engaging the opponents with the flat exchanges. One can try to find matches between Li Yongbo and Tian Bingyi vs Park Joo Bong and Kim Min Soo. You'll find Li, the smasher often gave up clear attacking opportunities and would hit back with a deep clear to the baseline.
     
  7. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    london
    Looking at the singles games BWF put up on those years, Is a change of grip used for forehand overheads noticeable to you on the videos they put up of singles matches? (contrasting 1983 or 1985 to today) ? (If you'd like I could make that a separate thread.. but i'm interested in your input re that 'cos you might know something about the subject). I'm extremely interested in if you can show with an image / timeframe.
     
  8. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    280
    Occupation:
    Professional / Badminton Coach
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, Malaysia
    PJB/KMS revolutionize how double's should be played offensively during those time. Remember seeing them playing live here against Malaysia's famous sidek brothers, Razif /Jalani Sidek in the 1989 Malays1a Open Final. Was just 17 y.o that time. Just awesome. No wonder they have a 81% success rate in all finals they have entered in their 8 years playing together. They left a foot print which all double players are currently following now. It's a similar scenario when Heryanto Arbi first came into the circuit back in the early 90's. He changed everything about jumping smash.
     
  9. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    london
    Is the jump smash a big game changer in terms of tactics for example, with a jump smash, is an attack almost always stronger than the defense of smash. And so prior to or without a jump smash, were attacking clears far more common?
     
  10. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    280
    Occupation:
    Professional / Badminton Coach
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, Malaysia
    Offensive and defensive has it's own advantage. In doubles, we all know that being constantly on the offensive side has a much greater chances of winning a point. However in singles, it's not as straight forward like that. You only attack when you have the opportunity. If that opportunity is not planned right then your opponent defense/return could be a far better strategy to win him a point.
     
  11. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    london
    My question is re doubles and the impact of jump smash on tactics specifically on the choice of which attacking shot is played, or was played prior to the development of the jump smash
     
  12. sonnymak

    sonnymak Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    kl,malaysia
    In the 70s they use heavier rackets compared to later years. I also grew up watching doubles badminton from 80s onwards. These videos refreshed my memory a lot. Based on my memory and experienced , I also thought Liem Siew King and his various partners doubles partners were awesome before the coming of Tian Bing Yee and Lee Yong Bo and PJK and Kim. I also thought that Razif and Jailani smashes were weaker but their defense were phenomenal. I also remember when Cheah Soon Kit appeared in 1988 his jump smash was and the power and speed of the smash was something never seen before. Later Rexy , Thomas Lund , Soo Beng Kiang, Ricky would follow.

    After watch several old videos of double players in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s, I can discern several period of shifts in men doubles.

    I find Liem SK - Christian H pairing in 1979 to be slow and the technical skill to be lacking. Points were won in just a couple of strokes and very few cross court net play. Often both pairs just lift off the net. This was the same with the Khisltrom and his partner vs Sven Pri in 1976.

    The game did not moved much in the early 80s. I looked at Razif Jailani vistory in 1982 at AER and the semifinal game in 1984 . Mike Tregett and his partner did not have jump smash as well as the Malaysians. The points were also won quicky. The finals of 1984 was the same. Heryanto and Harimanto didnt have jump smashes.

    PJK and Kim 1985 were a wee bit faster and PJK were constantly moving to the front net. Kim at that point werent jumping a lot . They played with a lot of drives. But it didnt look that different from 1984.

    Li -Tian who came in the fold in 1986 were very fast attackers with good technique. I thought they were monstrous when I first saw them but now I see it was quite slow although they hit harder with steep smashes. I thought Liem SK and Bobby Ertanto in 1987 were different from Liem and Christian in 1979 or Christain and Ade. Liem's atacking was hard and steep which I rate better that Li Yong Bo smashes.

    Right about his time Razif Jailani played a different approach too. Their defence were stout to the point of the ridiculous and they added more attack. The finals of the world Championship in 1987 between Li -Tian and the Sideks were exciting to watch different from the finals of the 1982 Asian game between Christain -Icuk and Luan Jin - Sun. It took more number of strokes and smashes to win the rallies.

    At this point I could say there was a shift in Mens doubles. The games between the Indonesian SKorean Chinese and Malaysian pairs become exciting with different country styles at play.

    Jump smashes were became more frequent after 1990 with the emergence of Cheah Soon Kit , Soo Beng Kiang Rexy Ricky and Bambang Suprianto.
     

Share This Page