should it be a service fault

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by superlentivirus, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. superlentivirus

    superlentivirus Regular Member

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    As Law 9.1.2 on completion of the backward movement of the server's racket head, any delay in the start of service (Law 9.2) should be considered to be an undue delay

    When serving,
    if a player drops down the shuttle during the backward movement of the racket, and stops moving racket forward...............
    should it be a service fault?
     
  2. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    The rule only forbids stopping after starting to move forwards. Unless the racket has started to move forwards, the server can do as they please.

    Also note that all of this is conditional upon the server (and receiver) being ready. Some players have elaborate service routines, and if they are the same every time, they are generally tolerated and not called, even if it is an outright double action.

    This does not mean that the server can hold too long after completing the backwards movement. What exactly is too long is up to you or your service judge. As a rule of thumb, I'd say that holding 5 seconds is barely ok, and 10 seconds is too long. In practice, many service judges also look at the pattern (is the player always holding 5 seconds or sometimes serving immediately and sometimes after 8s?) and maybe even effect on the opponent.
     
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  3. superlentivirus

    superlentivirus Regular Member

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    got it.
    thank you :)
     
  4. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    I am a bit confused with the previous explanation and wanted to share my understanding of this. There are two different "undue delays" in service that should not be confused between them.
    That means that once the server has finished the preparation for the service and receiver is in the ready position the delay after that should be minimal. I agree with the 5-8 seconds mentioned by @phihag. Longer delay of service is faulted by the umpire and announced as "fault server, undue delay".

    Than there is:
    That means any delay after backwards movement should be a fault. This is quite critical as what happens is that the receiver is expecting an immediate shot and start charging the leg movement and, if the server than flicks, the receiver will completely loose his balance. Also, by delaying the serve like this one can force the receiver to start moving before the service is completely delivered and than he might get faulted for moving too early...

    The thing is, even though in 9.1.7 it says that continuous motion should be from the start of the service (which is the forward movement of the racket), in fact because of the 9.1.2 the continuous motion of the racket head should be already starting from the backwards motion. Slowing down in the back is perfectly fine, but complete stopping should be prevented.

    Yes, if the delay in the back is quite small and consistent in every serve, than it would be allowed by most umpires considered as "service routine" but anything longer and sudden must be faulted. This is done by service judge similarly to the "continuous motion" fault (9.1.7).
     
    #4 stradrider, Dec 16, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
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  5. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    I am reading the original post again and wonder if there are multiple ways to understand the question...

    @superlentivirus could you please clarify if your question was answered?
     
    #5 stradrider, Dec 16, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  6. superlentivirus

    superlentivirus Regular Member

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    badminton.jpg


    Yes!
    And my question was:
    if a player (accidentally) drops down the shuttle (to the floor) during the backward movement of the racket(the red arrow period), and stops moving racket forward...............should it be a service fault?
    As phihag mentioned, if the racket's head did not move forwards, it should NOT be a service fault.
    Otherwise, it should be a service fault.
    @philhag , then the fault will be "shuttle missed"?
     
  7. superlentivirus

    superlentivirus Regular Member

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    The situation I’ve met was:
    The server services in small delay but consistently in every service, I considered it as “service routine”, and did not call any service fault.
    BUT, the server SUDDENLY did a FAST-PERFECT-LEGAL service that surprised his opponent and won that important point.

    will you call service fault in the next illegal but routine service?
    o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
     
  8. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    Oh I see, so I was explaining a different thing :).

    Well... That's a good question! I like it.

    I would say that the service is not yet started and than there is no fault... However...
    We know that the serve starts with the first forward movement of the racket but when does an "attempt of service" starts? Perhaps on the backward motion? :eek: I am not sure....
     
  9. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    That one is easy :). Since the opponent was ready only maters that the receiver aware of the small delay in his opponent's routine. Sudden serve is perfectly legal as long as receiver is ready and when the server goes back to his small delay routine again, there is nothing sudden about it, we know he does it.

    The same with the waiting in ready position. Some players would wait 4 seconds before the serve almost every time. But once in a while they would go and serve extremely fast and there is nothing wrong with it.
     
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  10. GingerCorslette

    GingerCorslette Regular Member

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    This is news to me. I've got a club-mate who serves like one mentioned: preparing a backhand serve, he will 'drop' the shuttle on the backwards motion, and hit it after it has fallen down about a good 5 inches. This small delay completely messes the timing of most receivers, including me. And in local/regional tournaments (we have participated in some), this never gets called.
     
  11. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    Yea, I saw a weird service like that. Not sure if it have to be faulted, he just try to time the shot when the shuttle is in right position. Actually in my opinion it should not be hard to return it as you can easily predict when he is going to hit it depending on where is the racket.

    One thing to watch out with this serve is that because the shuttle is falling vertically often the server would hit feather first which is also a fault...
     
  12. juneau-AK

    juneau-AK Regular Member

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    This is good learning.
    The lesson for me here is ask the proper question to get proper answer.

    This is also the strategy/protocol for umpiring. Make decisions after latching on the pertinent information, that is, there must be no ambiguity.

    The OP started with a situation that had two moving things to consider - the shuttle dropping downward, and the racquet moving backward.
    Then tacked a modification, and then another.

    Please realise it is difficult to understand "will you call service fault in the next illegal but routine service?"

    Either it is illegal, or it is routine. If former, fault, if latter, play on.
     
  13. juneau-AK

    juneau-AK Regular Member

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    To those people who figure 5 to 8 seconds hold, just put the following numbers and figure out the dead-time.
    In many MD matches, the rallies are less than 5 shots, lasting barely 2 to 3 seconds. For a match that is, for calculation purposes, a close full scoreline of 21-19, 19-21, 21-19, a total of 120 points, that would be 600 to 960 seconds. Really! As an umpire, why would you have 10 to 16 minutes of doing nothing? As a spectator, I would want a refund!
     
  14. juneau-AK

    juneau-AK Regular Member

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    Also read another thread in this sub-forum - https://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?threads/taking-too-long-to-serve.169550/
     
  15. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    Yes... and a tournament with 200 matches will have almost 7 hours wasted on 2 minute warm ups before each match. Some things cannot be taken away, as players need the time to get ready...
     
    #15 stradrider, Dec 26, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019

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