Help with Stroke Please!!

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Mason, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    looks a lot better and more relaxed.

    For your normal smash, you still need to work on that right leg kicking through forward. Your left leg needs to swing back more.

    Try working on the follow through. After hitting the shuttle your right arm hangs down rather uncontrolled - try to control it to swing across forward a bit in front of your body. That will help keep balance and speed up moving to the next shot.

    keep control of the left arm after hitting the shuttle.
     
  3. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    It’s funny you mentioned this, I just used that app last night while practicing . It’s exposed a lot of weakness in my footwork haha
     
  4. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I noticed these things too. I’m hoping by being more relaxed in my stroke and also by having more relaxed and fluid footwork, these things will improve ....?
     
  5. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    I beg to differ - you have progressed really well and by doing your scissor as well, it's likely you would not appreciate the kinetic chain as well, and confuse the body movements even more.

    It is a very, very slippery slope to try and focus on too many things at once. Too often players want to do a multi-corner combos/random feed drills because it's 'more realistic' and 'kills 2 birds with 1 stone' but in truth, your brain can only process so much at once. That's assuming they even do training...the vast majority of players wanting to improve just play games and expect to improve quick - there's just FAR too much going on in a game!

    Even the exact same drill with the brain focusing on different parts can yield different results!

    Just look at Tago's video. He's telling us to practice without a racquet, without a shuttle, legs only for a week (and I'm sure he'd get us to do it longer if he could ;) ).
     
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  6. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    This makes no sense to me at all.

    If you are at the net, then you'd be doing a net shot or a lift or perhaps a push. A drop is done from the back. So let's say you mean you go to the net and do a net shot.

    You then say you wait until your partner lifts. So I suppose you mean the opponents lift it and your partner clears it?

    There is a difference between a lift and a clear, you know? Lift is low to high. Clear is high to high.

    And you say you would go to the back court. Why? If your partner clears it, you go sides. Why would you be going to the back court. That makes no sense at all. (and so as is often the case, what you are saying seems wrong in a way that goes way beyond a terminology issue, though wrong or unusual terminology makes it even more unclear)
     
  7. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I am doing a drill with my partner. Here are examples of me trying to do it, as you can see I have trouble going from the front court to the back.

    I am going to work on getting better at this drill
     
  8. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    your partner is the lazy young player to your left?

    really you are playing with the guy opposite you, so if your "partner" is the guy to your left, then he isn't that relevant.. as he isn't part of your drill.. he's doing a drill with the guy opposite him.

    One of the things in that drill that is a bit strange is when you are at the front and you do a lift, you are then staying at the front 'cos you know that he's going to do a drop.. Whereas you are supposed to go back after a lift. (unless perhaps it was an attacking lift). It'd be more realistic if you went back after a lift..

    A half court game would be more realistic.. and going from the front to the back has a lot to do with how good your net shot was. (i.e. if your net shot was very tight then he can't lift it as deep.. whereas if your net shot was not good then when you recover you'd go a bit further back than normal.

    Also it looks like his shots aren't being too hard on you, he isn't pushing them that far back and he isn't hitting them high to your left.. I can't comment much on your footwork getting back 'cos mine isn't too good either..

    I'm probably not that good at getting from the front to the back at that kind of drill either.. I see you mishitting a lot, but what makes you think your footwork getting back is going wrong or a problem?

    I'm not great at seeing issues with footwork cos mine is pretty bad, but it looks to me like you are getting behind it and turning i'm curious where you think your struggle is with your footwork going from the front to the back?

    For me personally with my poor cardio, there is a franticness to a drill that goes lift drop net..and it keeps alternating, and you could slow it by making it three net shots, or making so it doesn't alternate so making it an even number of net shots , 2 net shots. then you might feel a bit more composed.. But from the looks of things you look quite composed. I'm struggling to see you struggling. (apart from your mishits)

    I think you might've struggled if the guy you are doing the drill with had lifted or cleared high and far.. and taken some of your bad net shots really early.. But he didn't..

    I'm curious why you felt you were struggling with footwork going front to back thoug?. (and you may be right maybe you are struggling with it.. I don't know) but I can tell you that when people are really struggling with it they aren't getting there, and they start trying to arch and can almost quit trying to get it, and you are far from that.
     
  9. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Wrong footwork.

    If you're retrieving a high lift from the net and you're far forward enough to play a kill if they choose to play a return net, then your net shot must have been good enough to force a high lift.

    If it is a high lift, use 3 step (crossover steps) footwork, not a flying step footwork (which will never give you a full court movement...certainly not without taking it behind/to the side of you rather than getting behind the shuttle properly.

    You can see from your flying step footwork that you're 'hanging' in the air to time your shot correctly (which also means your momentum is backwards on a few shots). This means you have enough time to fit in the extra half step for a pivot, then two quick crossover steps.

    If your net shot was not good enough to force a high lift, then in singles you'd chasse back 1 step, such that you can lift a net shot of theirs, or be able to intercept a flatter attacking lift.
     
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  10. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Thank you! Do you have a video that demonstrates me getting to the back court from the front like that ?
     
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  11. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Good work - drill like these are good to show up areas to improve.

    A) going backwards: You need to take an extra side step backwards. You have a common problem at the moment. With an extra step backwards you will not feel like over balancing backwards.

    But, in order to take that extra step backwards, you need to quicken your feet speed (which is different from anticipating earlier). This is very important and takes time to integrate.

    B) going forward and playing that net shot: you can improve consistency big time by hitting the shuttle at the same time as you land the front foot on the ground. Watch how other lesser skilled people do it (or rather don't do it)
     
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  12. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    It'd be good to see a video of what you mean..

    Do you have a video example and timeframe showing the footwork that you describe?
     
    #872 ralphz, Nov 24, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  13. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Is this the kind of footwork that are referring to ?
     
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  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    This is the footwork that @DarkHiatus described with a high lift.

    In your training video, your training partner is not hitting the shuttle so high so side step backwards is preferred.

    You can see that netshot at the forecourt; the player hits the approach to the net when his front foot lands
     
  15. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Ok , this sidestep backwards from the front court is hard for me to picture.....can you make a video of yourself doing it or one of your students?
     
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  16. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    It's very similar to the video you linked of LCW. For both movements, the pivot is the first step (now he is facing out the side of the court, towards the camera).

    For the 3 step movement (pivot + 2 crossover steps),
    • (Step 1: Pivot)
    • (Step 1.5: flying step = left foot 'hop')
    • Step 2: left foot crosses behind right foot
    • Step 3: right foot crosses behind left foot
    For the sidestep movement @Cheung describes (pivot + sidestep)
    • (Step 1: Pivot)
    • (Step 1.5: flying step = left foot 'hop')
    • Step 2: chasse step
    Your original footwork is the fastest, but moves the least distance (pivot + flying step = 1.5 steps), @Cheung's footwork is slightly slower moving slightly further (pivot + flying step + sidestep = 2.5 steps), and 3 step footwork is the slowest, but moves the full court length (pivot + flying step + 2 crossover steps = 3.5 steps).

    Roughly, you use your footwork if the lift is a really poor midcourt lift (not that likely), @Cheung's footwork for a 2/3rds lift (like your training partner is doing to you), and 3 step footwork if it's a really high lift and/or 3/4 to full court length.
     
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  17. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Nice post ! Very clear
     
  18. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    No problem - it is worth saying there is no footwork pattern that should go beyond 4 steps. The furthest distance you should ever have to move is 4 steps (and most of the time it's 3.5 steps if you are moving and recovering correctly).

    4 steps is basically your crosscourt smash + retrieval of a tight block - you can technically do it in 3 BIG steps, but 4 smaller steps keeps you better balanced, and allows you to change direction after 2 steps if you get a surprise lift, rather than having to commit to the corner with 3 steps.

    It's clear that you shouldn't move 4 steps all of the time, but it is also worth noting you also don't always want to move 3.5 steps...or 2.5 steps...or 1.5 steps...or 1 step. You need a mixture of them all to be most efficient!
     
  19. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Yeah it seems like this is getting more complicated than I thought
    But I enjoy the process of learning
     
  20. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    The last couple of days I have practiced a lot on my split step, going to all directions and then trying to implement that in my game. Tonight(which is a night I normally do not play) , I noticed a huge improvement. I was faster to the shuttle and I could “think” about my shot and stroke more so. This also allowed me to be more relaxed. My defense was much better especially the third shot of a rally. I noticed after watching this video a few times my backhand side rear court footwork was a little goofy , I had some extra steps. Also my left arm is still a problem. But I was happy with how much faster I felt with less effort.
     
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